@Salt-and-Limes said:

@Poetist said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

Based on those articles, I think that both WB and Cavill's team are neither reasonable. WB because they haven't put much effort into making a good Superman film. So therefore, they're not in a good position to wonder if the lead star is worthy. Even they admit that there were so many factors that contributed to the failure of MOS, BvS, & JL.

There may be many factors, but I don't think they're being unreasonable. This is show BUSINESS, and they are looking at profitability -- not creativity.

The bottom line is that HC didn't bring butts in seats. His name is not that big. Therefore, he carries very little clout in these negotiations.

I disagree. In today's market, the average movie goer wants to spend their money on a movie they know is going to be good. You can't make a good film without creativity (regardless of the budget). Which is why so many major block busters are flopping hard.

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘good’ or ‘creative’. I like to look at the ‘how the movies are made’ section in Blu-Rays, and you have a lot of creative people working in the background whether the movie is flop or not. A movie like Pacific Rim may be a flop, but all the work done to create the Jaegers (robots) and Kaijus (the big monsters) required a lot of creative work. An excellent movie like The Shawshank Redemption which flopped in the cinema (partly because of its weird title, I was informed) sold a lot of videos and has been in the list of all time favourite movies in many lists.

I think average movie goers these days usually have to contend with movie prices to begin with. Depending on where you are, movies cost a lot of money, particularly if you are a family of 4 or more. So yes, you’d look for something good to get value for the money you pay for, something the entire family (or most of the family) will enjoy for example. But that same family may just decide to wait for the good movie to go out on video or on one of the streaming services and watch it in their big TVs at home because it’s cheaper to watch it that way. I doubt the family will be looking too much at who starred in the film or the ‘creativity’ factor.

@Poetist said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

@Poetist said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

There may be many factors, but I don't think they're being unreasonable. This is show BUSINESS, and they are looking at profitability -- not creativity.

The bottom line is that HC didn't bring butts in seats. His name is not that big. Therefore, he carries very little clout in these negotiations.

The time to do that is before you lose out on a role, because he may not have a rep after Dany. HC should take the starting pay $500k and ask for a bonus if the movie reaches a certain figure at the box office. If it's a success, he should be allowed to have some input on the next film and get producing credit.

I guess HC is trying to be Gal Gadot. With the success of Wonder Woman, she managed to get a starring role in a serious indie, ‘My Dearest Fidel’, a movie’s with the Rock and has even made a deal to executive produce (with her husband) a limited series on Showtime about the life of Hedy Lamarr. All this, and she’s also working on the Wonder Woman sequel.

https://deadline.com/2018/08/gal-gadot-nearing-deal-star-limited-series-hedy-lamarr-sarah-treem-showtime-1202440834/

Quite interesting as we said before, she gets to star with the Rock (instead of HC). Now she is successfully bringing in her husband to produce a movie with her. (Kind of like HC trying to bring in his bros — both blood and non-blood to his production company).

I guess it’s ‘easier’ for Gal to do all this because of the huge success of Wonder Woman which unfortunately didn’t happen for MOS. BUT, one would wonder why Margot Robbie, who starred as Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad is getting similar benefits as Gal Gadot and doing a lot of other movie projects. Suicide Squad was not a big hit either (although from what I read, it still did respectably well given it wasn’t allowed into China and drew a more diverse demographics). There are more rumours of a Suicide Squad sequel and a solo movie for Harley, apart from her stint in the upcoming Birds of Prey movie which is going to be directed by an Asian female director.

https://deadline.com/2018/04/harley-quinn-margot-robbie-cathy-yan-birds-of-prey-warner-bros-dc-entertainment-bat-girl-christina-hodson-1202365866/

@ToniTurnyne said:

Quite interesting as we said before, she gets to star with the Rock (instead of HC). Now she is successfully bringing in her husband to produce a movie with her. (Kind of like HC trying to bring in his bros — both blood and non-blood to his production company).

Doesn't this make two movies w/the Rock? I can understand HC not being cast in this one, because Dany/Rock's production isn't producing. As I said way back, Dany was hoping to sign Gal at the Ace Comic-Con. It didn't happen, but she is wooing Gal w/projects. Who knows maybe Gal will have a change of heart. I hope not. If Gal signs, I'm sure Dave will have Wonder Woman on his resume.

I guess it’s ‘easier’ for Gal to do all this because of the huge success of Wonder Woman which unfortunately didn’t happen for MOS. BUT, one would wonder why Margot Robbie, who starred as Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad is getting similar benefits as Gal Gadot and doing a lot of other movie projects. Suicide Squad was not a big hit either (although from what I read, it still did respectably well given it wasn’t allowed into China and drew a more diverse demographics). There are more rumours of a Suicide Squad sequel and a solo movie for Harley, apart from her stint in the upcoming Birds of Prey movie which is going to be directed by an Asian female director.

It's who you know and who you bed. Margot screwed around w/Will Smith, and I'm sure others in a position of power. Gal is just the "It Girl" of the moment.

HC isn't impressing ENOUGH bigwigs. He was lucky enough to catch McQ's eye from MFU which lead to MI6, but even that needed Tom's approval. Hopefully, he will make some waves w/MI6, but he should have had something lined up after it, in case it was a turkey.

... read this short link. He isn't getting the sweetheart deals and this may be why.

https://www.laineygossip.com/Amy-Pascal-calls-Henry-Cavill-That-Lame-Superman-Guy-in-leaked-Sony-email/38304

@Poetist said:

@ToniTurnyne said:

Quite interesting as we said before, she gets to star with the Rock (instead of HC). Now she is successfully bringing in her husband to produce a movie with her. (Kind of like HC trying to bring in his bros — both blood and non-blood to his production company).

Doesn't this make two movies w/the Rock? I can understand HC not being cast in this one, because Dany/Rock's production isn't producing. As I said way back, Dany was hoping to sign Gal at the Ace Comic-Con. It didn't happen, but she is wooing Gal w/projects. Who knows maybe Gal will have a change of heart. I hope not. If Gal signs, I'm sure Dave will have Wonder Woman on his resume.

No, just 1. Gal is set to star with The Rock in one movie that sounds like another one for the action genre. However, she is going to star in an indie (something about Fidel Castro?), AND in a short limited series for Showtime which is a biopic about Heddy Lamarr whom I actually admire. (Actress who got bored with acting and went in th e science field instead — that’s one smart chick. Her invention is still being used today, and laid the ground work for WiFi, I think.) Gal is producing the Showtime limited series with her hubby. (Hmm if HC is copying her, would he, Charlie and Ben consider producing a limited series instead?)

It's who you know and who you bed. Margot screwed around w/Will Smith, and I'm sure others in a position of power. Gal is just the "It Girl" of the moment.

HC isn't impressing ENOUGH bigwigs. He was lucky enough to catch McQ's eye from MFU which lead to MI6, but even that needed Tom's approval. Hopefully, he will make some waves w/MI6, but he should have had something lined up after it, in case it was a turkey.

... read this short link. He isn't getting the sweetheart deals and this may be why.

https://www.laineygossip.com/Amy-Pascal-calls-Henry-Cavill-That-Lame-Superman-Guy-in-leaked-Sony-email/38304

Amy Pascal’s comments about him being the ‘lame Superman guy’ had been discussed on the IMDB discussion board. I remember posting that when people got too annoyed when posters like us say critical things about HC, they should remember that we’re just posters spending time on the board. It’s people like Amy Pascal they should be worrying about, particularly if other influential people in Hollywood have the same view of HC. That was years ago when she made that comment, I wonder if executives’ opinion about him changed. Stories about ridiculous moustaches can only do so much...

@ToniTurnyne said:

Gal is producing the Showtime limited series with her hubby. (Hmm if HC is copying her, would he, Charlie and Ben consider producing a limited series instead?)

No, they have big meeting to discuss working a story around a DNA tattoo artist and planning events. Whatever that may mean.

HC isn't impressing ENOUGH bigwigs. He was lucky enough to catch McQ's eye from MFU which lead to MI6, but even that needed Tom's approval. Hopefully, he will make some waves w/MI6, but he should have had something lined up after it, in case it was a turkey.

... read this short link. He isn't getting the sweetheart deals and this may be why.

https://www.laineygossip.com/Amy-Pascal-calls-Henry-Cavill-That-Lame-Superman-Guy-in-leaked-Sony-email/38304

Amy Pascal’s comments about him being the ‘lame Superman guy’ had been discussed on the IMDB discussion board. I remember posting that when people got too annoyed when posters like us say critical things about HC, they should remember that we’re just posters spending time on the board. It’s people like Amy Pascal they should be worrying about, particularly if other influential people in Hollywood have the same view of HC. That was years ago when she made that comment, I wonder if executives’ opinion about him changed. Stories about ridiculous moustaches can only do so much...

If HC was impressing the execs, there would be no way in hell that LE can make more films in his 6 short years as a film actor that HC. Plus, LE has producing project w/Netflix and endorsements.

@ToniTurnyne said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

@Poetist said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

Based on those articles, I think that both WB and Cavill's team are neither reasonable. WB because they haven't put much effort into making a good Superman film. So therefore, they're not in a good position to wonder if the lead star is worthy. Even they admit that there were so many factors that contributed to the failure of MOS, BvS, & JL.

There may be many factors, but I don't think they're being unreasonable. This is show BUSINESS, and they are looking at profitability -- not creativity.

The bottom line is that HC didn't bring butts in seats. His name is not that big. Therefore, he carries very little clout in these negotiations.

I disagree. In today's market, the average movie goer wants to spend their money on a movie they know is going to be good. You can't make a good film without creativity (regardless of the budget). Which is why so many major block busters are flopping hard.

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘good’ or ‘creative’. I like to look at the ‘how the movies are made’ section in Blu-Rays, and you have a lot of creative people working in the background whether the movie is flop or not. A movie like Pacific Rim may be a flop, but all the work done to create the Jaegers (robots) and Kaijus (the big monsters) required a lot of creative work. An excellent movie like The Shawshank Redemption which flopped in the cinema (partly because of its weird title, I was informed) sold a lot of videos and has been in the list of all time favourite movies in many lists.

I think average movie goers these days usually have to contend with movie prices to begin with. Depending on where you are, movies cost a lot of money, particularly if you are a family of 4 or more. So yes, you’d look for something good to get value for the money you pay for, something the entire family (or most of the family) will enjoy for example. But that same family may just decide to wait for the good movie to go out on video or on one of the streaming services and watch it in their big TVs at home because it’s cheaper to watch it that way. I doubt the family will be looking too much at who starred in the film or the ‘creativity’ factor.

What I mean by creativity is something that is original, with interesting dialogue, that has a director who knows how to make a film coherent and bring out the best in the cast and crew, and actors who give convincing and memorable performances. Man of Steel, Batman vs Superman, and Justice League had none of those things. Critics and audience members thought that those films were dreadful. So therefore, they flopped. The majority of the ones who did go to see them decided not to go and see it a 2nd time; they also convinced other people not to waste their money.

Movies with flashy CGI, poor editing, boring story lines, and uninspired acting are films that the average person would rather wait until it's available on Netflix or Redbox (why would anyone spend a lot of money on something that looks like it's garbage). I agree that sometimes people would rather wait until good movies are available on streaming and/or Redbox - usually due weak promotion and limited release. However, films that are long anticipated (like MOS, BvS, and JL) are movies that people are willing to take the time to go and see. They expect them to be memorable and entertaining. Since they weren't, many fans were disappointed in how lackluster they were. And that is also why DC is failing.

@Salt-and-Limes said:

@ToniTurnyne said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

@Poetist said:

@Salt-and-Limes said:

Based on those articles, I think that both WB and Cavill's team are neither reasonable. WB because they haven't put much effort into making a good Superman film. So therefore, they're not in a good position to wonder if the lead star is worthy. Even they admit that there were so many factors that contributed to the failure of MOS, BvS, & JL.

There may be many factors, but I don't think they're being unreasonable. This is show BUSINESS, and they are looking at profitability -- not creativity.

The bottom line is that HC didn't bring butts in seats. His name is not that big. Therefore, he carries very little clout in these negotiations.

I disagree. In today's market, the average movie goer wants to spend their money on a movie they know is going to be good. You can't make a good film without creativity (regardless of the budget). Which is why so many major block busters are flopping hard.

Well, it depends on what you mean by ‘good’ or ‘creative’. I like to look at the ‘how the movies are made’ section in Blu-Rays, and you have a lot of creative people working in the background whether the movie is flop or not. A movie like Pacific Rim may be a flop, but all the work done to create the Jaegers (robots) and Kaijus (the big monsters) required a lot of creative work. An excellent movie like The Shawshank Redemption which flopped in the cinema (partly because of its weird title, I was informed) sold a lot of videos and has been in the list of all time favourite movies in many lists.

I think average movie goers these days usually have to contend with movie prices to begin with. Depending on where you are, movies cost a lot of money, particularly if you are a family of 4 or more. So yes, you’d look for something good to get value for the money you pay for, something the entire family (or most of the family) will enjoy for example. But that same family may just decide to wait for the good movie to go out on video or on one of the streaming services and watch it in their big TVs at home because it’s cheaper to watch it that way. I doubt the family will be looking too much at who starred in the film or the ‘creativity’ factor.

What I mean by creativity is something that is original, with interesting dialogue, that has a director who knows how to make a film coherent and bring out the best in the cast and crew, and actors who give convincing and memorable performances.

What is original? Are any of the Jurassic movies or any movie by JJ Abrams original? Nope. Yet they make tons of money. Was Wonder Woman original? Apart from having a female lead, its plot and many of its scenes followed the pattern of the first Captain America movie. The CGI battle sequence between her and Ares wasn’t that great either. Yet it still made a lot of money.

I bring back the example of Shawshank Redemption. When that movie came out, hardly anyone saw it. Hardly anyone saw the Princess Bride and that movie had a lot of good dialogue and performances. Both movies only became popular when people started seeing it and buying it on video.

These days, if I want originality and compelling storylines I go to TV — Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, Showtime, etc.

Most analysts think the real problem is that there are too many blockbuster movies coming out, one after the other, and the movies ain’t getting cheaper to watch, and they don’t stay in the cinemas for too long anymore. The original Star Wars movie, the original Indiana Jones movies won’t do too well in the current climate.

With limited spending money a typical movie goer would probably rely more on word of mouth or internet ratings to pick and choose which movie they’ll watch, and watch the rest on video. But even good word of mouth won’t help if there is too much competition. A good example is Solo: A Star Wars movie. Critics and audiences didn’t hate this movie as much as BvS but it still didn’t perform well because of all the blockbuster movies that came before and after it.

Movies with flashy CGI, poor editing, boring story lines, and uninspired acting are films that the average person would rather wait until it's available on Netflix or Redbox (why would anyone spend a lot of money on something that looks like it's garbage).

IF this is true, why is the Fast and Furious franchise doing so well? Currently, the Meg is doing so well. Another shark movie (NOT original), and I doubt Jason Strathairn’s acting is inspiring, but for some reason a lot of people find him appealing. I did read that its marketing was done brilliantly so that helped. Yet, I do notice, it doesn’t have as much competition in the cinemas when it came out.

I agree that sometimes people would rather wait until good movies are available on streaming and/or Redbox - usually due weak promotion and limited release. However, films that are long anticipated (like MOS, BvS, and JL) are movies that people are willing to take the time to go and see. They expect them to be memorable and entertaining. Since they weren't, many fans were disappointed in how lackluster they were. And that is also why DC is failing.

MOS did bore me, but it must have made enough money to spawn BvS which spawned JL. As disappointing these movies were, they still seemed to have made enough money for DC to continue on and there are still people who like them. DC has Wonder Woman and Suicide Squad which did well , and DC TV shows and its straight to video animated movies are thriving. I wouldn’t write it off yet, given it survived through all the years when it produced one Batman movie dud after another until Christopher Nolan came along.

@ToniTurnyne said:

IF this is true, why is the Fast and Furious franchise doing so well? Currently, the Meg is doing so well. Another shark movie (NOT original), and I doubt Jason Strathairn’s acting is inspiring, but for some reason a lot of people find him appealing. I did read that its marketing was done brilliantly so that helped. Yet, I do notice, it doesn’t have as much competition in the cinemas when it came out.

It was the brilliant marketing. I had no interest in this movie, until I saw that Yorkie in that shark-infested ocean. Million questions ran in my head, what, how, and why? Then, it became more than a shark movie. It was a puppy dog vs a shark. WB even ran a twitter stunt promoting this duo. I was sold even though I know movie making 101 is that you always save the dog. You off the pup, you risk losing money. If you must, you have to do it w/o really showing the deed as in Fatal Attraction and not really letting the audience see the eyes and how cute the pet is or use a rabbit.

https://twitter.com/MegMovie/status/1026501018035486721

@Poetist said:

@ToniTurnyne said:

IF this is true, why is the Fast and Furious franchise doing so well? Currently, the Meg is doing so well. Another shark movie (NOT original), and I doubt Jason Strathairn’s acting is inspiring, but for some reason a lot of people find him appealing. I did read that its marketing was done brilliantly so that helped. Yet, I do notice, it doesn’t have as much competition in the cinemas when it came out.

It was the brilliant marketing. I had no interest in this movie, until I saw that Yorkie in that shark-infested ocean. Million questions ran in my head, what, how, and why? Then, it became more than a shark movie. It was a puppy dog vs a shark. WB even ran a twitter stunt promoting this duo. I was sold even though I know movie making 101 is that you always save the dog. You off the pup, you risk losing money. If you must, you have to do it w/o really showing the deed as in Fatal Attraction and not really letting the audience see the eyes and how cute the pet is or use a rabbit.

https://twitter.com/MegMovie/status/1026501018035486721

Hey P, you know the industry well, so you would probably know more insider story about the marketing of Meg and how it translated to its success. Meg is doing well in Asia, how well is is doing in the US?

Maybe they’ll make a sequel for this movie, and maybe Jason will team up with HC (since The Rock seems more keen to team up with Gal than him). LOL!

@ToniTurnyne said:

https://twitter.com/MegMovie/status/1026501018035486721

Hey P, you know the industry well, so you would probably know more insider story about the marketing of Meg and how it translated to its success. Meg is doing well in Asia, how well is is doing in the US?

It's doing great. This weekend it's US box office total is estimated to be at $85 million after ten days.

Maybe they’ll make a sequel for this movie, and maybe Jason will team up with HC (since The Rock seems more keen to team up with Gal than him). LOL!

Don't hold your breath. HC has to make his own luck.

@Poetist said:

@ToniTurnyne said:

https://twitter.com/MegMovie/status/1026501018035486721

Hey P, you know the industry well, so you would probably know more insider story about the marketing of Meg and how it translated to its success. Meg is doing well in Asia, how well is is doing in the US?

It's doing great. This weekend it's US box office total is estimated to be at $85 million after ten days.

Maybe they’ll make a sequel for this movie, and maybe Jason will team up with HC (since The Rock seems more keen to team up with Gal than him). LOL!

Don't hold your breath. HC has to make his own luck.

Given he got the MI6 and the MFU roles through some influence of Tom Cruise, and now he’s socialising a lot with The Rock, I think his strategy involves hanging around more successful/blockbuster actors and hope some of their luck will go his way... So maybe Jason can help with that...

@ToniTurnyne said:

@Poetist said:

@ToniTurnyne said:

https://twitter.com/MegMovie/status/1026501018035486721

Hey P, you know the industry well, so you would probably know more insider story about the marketing of Meg and how it translated to its success. Meg is doing well in Asia, how well is is doing in the US?

It's doing great. This weekend it's US box office total is estimated to be at $85 million after ten days.

Maybe they’ll make a sequel for this movie, and maybe Jason will team up with HC (since The Rock seems more keen to team up with Gal than him). LOL!

Don't hold your breath. HC has to make his own luck.

Given he got the MI6 and the MFU roles through some influence of Tom Cruise, and now he’s socialising a lot with The Rock, I think his strategy involves hanging around more successful/blockbuster actors and hope some of their luck will go his way... So maybe Jason can help with that...

Well, so far, the Rock hasn't handed anything to him.

Something extra.

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/dc-launching-dc-daily-news-show-for-new-streaming-service-kevin-smith-set-to-host

Okay, I was just reading some of these posts and pretty much everything came true. I guess the writing was on the wall.

https://deadline.com/2018/11/ratpac-dune-warner-bros-film-library-auction-wonder-woman-american-sniper-gravity-batman-v-superman-1202502857/

I recall seeing RatPac being in the credits of a lot of WB films, but I had no idea how many films they helped WB produce. With RatPac out of the scene, I wonder who would be helping WB finance the DC movies. (Wonder if the Rock’s company will be more active with WB.)