Thanks for the clarification. You're absolutely right.

I've also asked the mod who replied if they could fix season one.

For season 1, do you have an official proof that the first season was originally broadcasted as only 6 episodes ?

There's the BBC Programme Index which also highlights the gaps in production and transmission (although by its nature is difficult to link to because it used dynamic searches), The BBC Shakespeare Plays book (1991) which was researched using original documentation related to the series and talks about it season by season in relation to production changes behind the scenes and the change in producers from Cedric Messina to Jonathan Miller to Elijah Moshinsky also says on page 18, "Messina used six directors for the first season of six shows".

It's also how they packaged together in the Season by Season release of the series in Australia: https://www.ezydvd.com.au/DVD/The-Shakespeare-Collection-The-Acclaimed-BBC-TV-Series-Series-1/dp/6197642

@feelinglistless said:

There's the BBC Programme Index which also highlights the gaps in production and transmission (although by its nature is difficult to link to because it used dynamic searches),

Neither the Genome, nor the current version of the BBC page of that series use season numbers. A gap doesn't necessary mean a season change.

The BBC Shakespeare Plays book (1991) which was researched using original documentation related to the series and talks about it season by season in relation to production changes behind the scenes and the change in producers from Cedric Messina to Jonathan Miller to Elijah Moshinsky also says on page 18, "Messina used six directors for the first season of six shows".

This book has been written 6 years after the end of the series. So, unless it include explicit indication by the BBC, it can't be used as a proof.

It's also how they packaged together in the Season by Season release of the series in Australia: https://www.ezydvd.com.au/DVD/The-Shakespeare-Collection-The-Acclaimed-BBC-TV-Series-Series-1/dp/6197642

They don't necessary split the show on DVD the same way that it was originally broadcasted, especially when the DVD are released in anoter country.

In short, we need proof from the time of the original broadcast.

In the introduction of a copy of Romeo and Juliet which was published by BBC Books simultaneously with broadcast in 1978, the first producer Cedric Messina writes:

"The plays that form the first sequence will be Romeo and Juliet, Richard II, As You Like It, Julius Caesar, Measure for Measure and Henry VIII. The guiding principle behind The BBC Television Shakespeare is to make the plays, in permanent form, accessible to audiences throughout the world, and to bring to these many millions the sheer delight and excitement of seeing them in performance — in many cases, for the first time. For students, these productions will offer a wonderful opportunity to study the plays performed by some of the greatest classical actors of our time. But it is a primary intention that the plays are offered as entertainment, to be made as vividly alive as it is possible for the production teams to make them. They are not intended to be museum-like examples of past productions. It is this new commitment, for six plays of Shakespeare per year for six years, that makes the project unique."

I have opened an internal discussion with other moderators. We will have to wait a little here.

Thanks. Note also that the plays have all be entered as separate "TV movies" because of how they've subsequently been released. In the dvd boxset, they're in alphabetical order. But this is how they were originally broadcast.

The British Film Institute (a reliable source) lists the episodes in their respective series, albeit with the more conventional titles used in advertising etc.

The same series divisions are listed on TVDB, IMDB and TVMaze, and bar a few variations/errors, the original titles used in this series productions are relatively intact.

Although Wikipedia is generally considered unreliable, the extent of sources referenced on this page, along with the extensive detail, mean it shouldn't be dismissed. For example, it goes into extensive detail about partial US funding through to US publicity and displays original airing dates for both the UK and US. I mention this because it highlights how US broadcasting is more regimented in allocating time slots, as well as season placements. This highlights season allocation to episodes to remain synchronised. Further insight on scheduling here, and it should be noted that the producer changed after seasons 2 and 4.

Not to mention the booklet which comes with the DVD boxset release, researched and written by DR Martin Wiggins of the Shakespeare Centre in Stratford-Upon-Avon, gives the TX dates and Season divisions too.

Here is the result of the internal discussions:

First, a reminder, our rule indicate : "Episodes should be added exactly as they first aired on the original network (title, date, order, season). " The important part of this rule is that we are using the original broadcast to determine how the episodes should be listed.

Neither the Genome, nor the current BBC website mention multiple seasons (or series). Consequently, this show should be listed here as one single season.

The season splits you are mentionning are either coming:

• from the production of the show
• from later DVD releases or international releases
• from third-party sources (some of them being user-edited databases)

These data aren't relevant here.

I will keep the data of the other seasons online until the start of next week so you can copy/paste the data to the first season. (We don't have tool to automatically move an episode from one season to another).

I invite you to post a message here when this has been done, so I can remove them.

Despite the BBC being the original source of the material in question, to rely upon it today as a primary source is naive. It is not the paragon of virtue it was once considered, with socio-political agendas and frequent updates and restrictions applied to its websites. Throughout the history of the web there have always been unauthorised sites conveying far more detailed and accurate information than official counterparts, usually researched and maintained by those passionate about the subjects in question.

I've found one of the primary sources used on the Wikipedia page, which I had to research hard for (I refer you to the previous paragraph!), which is a book by Susan Willis, an American scholar specialising in Shakespeare studies and performance, who authored "The BBC Shakespeare Plays: Making The Televised Canon", which provides a detailed history and analysis of the series. This includes an eyewitness account of the production process, from planning and rehearsals to taping and editing.

I've found a link allowing search of the book, in which you only need to clear the default search criteria and replace with 'season' (42 results) and the aforementioned arguments of this thread will be undeniable!

As indicated above, our rules are clear. We should follow the original broadcaster. This can't be changed.

@GreatReset said:

I've found a link allowing search of the book, in which you only need to clear the default search criteria and replace with 'season' (42 results) and the aforementioned arguments of this thread will be undeniable!

We don't follow the production, but the original broadcast. If the BBC (Genome) doesn't mention seasons, that series shouldn't be listed with multiple seasons.

What would be acceptable proof?

As indicated, we follow the original broadcast by the BBC. So, the official data is the Genome

I went to the top and spoke to the iPlayer Content Presentation and Performance Manager at the BBC. It was a lengthy back forth but here are the relevant passages which he's given permission for me to put here:

As I have a bit to do with /programmes, I can certainly confirm that those are not the definitive answer to anything (especially as some of them are my work).

Two obvious examples of this are programmes which absolutely were made in series but aren't presented as such on /programmes. One is Inspector Montalbano - which as you can see elsewhere online is definitely made in series but is on /programmes in one continuous run. The reason for that is that the Beeb ran them in a different order than Italian TV and hence it contradicted other episode guides online, so it displays no series at all.

Another example is My Super Sweet 16 - which is also in a single continuous run, again despite being in series, because we only have selected episodes and so rather than have episode numbers or big gaps, we have none at at all. I took them out of the series the other week, in fact.

Quite often changes to the series structure on /programmes is because it powers iPlayer and too much of the metadata is unnecessary. In the case of Shakespeare, we currently only have two episodes available. If we said one was Series 1 Episode 3 and one was Series 4 Episode 2, and displayed that prominently, one of the first things the audience would think is "where are the other episodes, then?". But they're all standalone so you don't need to watch them in order. So we don't need to confuse things further for the audience. Hence they're only billed as standalones.

The general point is that /programmes is no definitive guide to anything because the info is often fiddled with to make it less confusing for the audience on iPlayer. On anthology shows like this, or those without a continuous narrative, we might not display series if it feels like it might make for a confusing offer for the audience, who always come first.

One example of it working the other way is with the Women's Euros, which is clearly one single "series" but we've got separate series for each stage on /programmes - which we added because during the Men's Euros last year, some third parties decided to make individual series for each match, so we added these to stop them inventing their own. Good luck arguing that should be counted as separate series because /programmes says so! So often we make them up or remove them to stop iPlayer breaking.

I'll shut up in a minute, but the other thing about Shakespeare is that they aren't split into six series [on /programmes] - because most of the plays are already in series [as per the /programmes structure] as they're in two parts! By that logic, there are not six series, there are twenty! But I can confirm that /programmes is no definitive guide to the BBC's own internal systems because it powers iPlayer and so it often gets changed to make that work more effectively. There is no way it should be considered more relevant than any sources from the time or from BBC drama, which are closer to the source than some people in BBC Online making things easier over forty years later.

My italics for emphasis and I added the info in the square brackets for clarity. It's also worth noting that the BBC Programme Index has absorbed information from the current /programmes section in some cases making it more difficult to search for the original entries as they appeared in the Radio Times.