"Would they accept him back?" They would have blown him half to Hell, if their plan hadn't been sabotaged.

@Satch_the_man said:

"Would they accept him back?" They would have blown him half to Hell, if their plan hadn't been sabotaged.

I don't think they really wanted to kill Eugene, it was just a matter of more lives being at stake and for better or worse, he made his choice. It's not like he didn't turn down a chance to be rescued. I'm not sure how much Negan actually suspects him though. The explanation he gave, without seeming nervous at all, makes perfect sense. They covered the casket too tightly with the tarp. Like sealing someone inside a plastic bag. And the engine noise alone would've been more than enough to drown out the weak sound of her pounding away in there.

Getting Rick and the others to fully accept him again would take a meaningful gesture on Eugene's part to show he was never really on Negan's side. In other words he'd have to do something heroic involving some personal risk. We've seen him do it before. He's like a bird that was finally learning to fly but then just gave up. From what he said to Sasha, that lineup at the beginning of the season is what did it. He got into the RV and drove off into the sunset expecting the Saviors to kill him. But then the helpless terror of waiting for Negan to pick someone, and watching him beat Abraham and Glenn to death, seems to have driven him back into his shell of self-preservation.

Great post -- I just meant that Rick showed Eugene was expendable to him with the order that failed.

I agree on the expendable remark. Eugene has barely made a mark on the group and he certainly wouldn't leave a huge gap. His absence so far has proven that.

However, chris above has made an excellent point. Eugene would have to risk throwing himself on a hand grenade if it means saving Team Rick and getting back in their good books. Perhaps he'll be the one to finally send (or at least contribute towards) Negan to his death.

The best part of all this now, though, is the fact that Gregory has gone up to Sanctuary to speak with Simon and rat everyone out - now that it's far too late. He's going to die a rat's death, for sure.

@larz9 said:

I agree on the expendable remark. Eugene has barely made a mark on the group and he certainly wouldn't leave a huge gap. His absence so far has proven that.

However, chris above has made an excellent point. Eugene would have to risk throwing himself on a hand grenade if it means saving Team Rick and getting back in their good books. Perhaps he'll be the one to finally send (or at least contribute towards) Negan to his death.

The best part of all this now, though, is the fact that Gregory has gone up to Sanctuary to speak with Simon and rat everyone out - now that it's far too late. He's going to die a rat's death, for sure.

Oh, Simon definitely saw some of Gregory's people in that group that came to Rick's rescue. If he hasn't left the Sanctuary by the time they get back he's going to find himself in a really bad place. Simon will remember that little one-on-one conversation and realize Gregory must've known what was brewing (and yet didn't come clean). He won't even get the Easy Street treatment. What possible use could he be to Negan? Maybe he'll be thrown in the furnace, maybe eviscerated and put out front on permanent guard duty, maybe pummeled to death with Lucille. A Spencer death.

@chrisjdel said: Maybe he'll be thrown in the furnace, maybe eviscerated and put out front on permanent guard duty, maybe pummeled to death with Lucille. A Spencer death.

I hear in the comic books, something quite major happens to him (I'm being as non-specific as I can be) and we'll all cheer.

On a side note, did anyone else notice the stuffed animal toy missing from Eugene's pocket? It almost always appeared in every shot in previous episodes, half hanging out of his left jacket pocket. I noticed it wasn't there this time. Any significance to that? The hiding spot for the poison pills which was no longer needed to hide anything now? Maybe Negan will spot this (if not already) as a clue to Eugene having given Sasha some kind of "weapon"?

@larz9 said:

On a side note, did anyone else notice the stuffed animal toy missing from Eugene's pocket? It almost always appeared in every shot in previous episodes, half hanging out of his left jacket pocket. I noticed it wasn't there this time. Any significance to that? The hiding spot for the poison pills which was no longer needed to hide anything now? Maybe Negan will spot this (if not already) as a clue to Eugene having given Sasha some kind of "weapon"?

One thing I'll say for Eugene, no one comes up with convincing bullshit on the fly quite like he does. Negan had a suspicion (which was probably pretty close to the truth) but started to doubt it after confronting Eugene. I mean, his explanation for Sasha's tragic demise does make logical sense. And he did a great job of not seeming afraid, just delivering his analysis of what probably happened in a very matter of fact way. I think Negan actually felt a little foolish for thinking Eugene might be involved. Those suspicions could always return of course, if more stuff that isn't quite kosher happens around his new handyman.

This is a great question - I was never a fan of Eugene and his constant whining whilst with Rick & the gang, but they have a real opportunity to do something interesting with his character now.

That Sasha would somehow fail to chomp Negan was as inevitable as the fact that she would be in place zombified to do so in the first place - however, whilst this was being set up, I couldn't help but think what a great twist it would be if she had actually killed Negan and the season had ended with the set up of a power struggle within the saviours prior to the all out war...

I'd loved to have seen this evolved Eugene seeing off Simon through some devious scheming and then Rick & Co discovering that he'd become the new Negan.

@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

This is a great question - I was never a fan of Eugene and his constant whining whilst with Rick & the gang, but they have a real opportunity to do something interesting with his character now.

That Sasha would somehow fail to chomp Negan was as inevitable as the fact that she would be in place zombified to do so in the first place - however, whilst this was being set up, I couldn't help but think what a great twist it would be if she had actually killed Negan and the season had ended with the set up of a power struggle within the saviours prior to the all out war...

I'd loved to have seen this evolved Eugene seeing off Simon through some devious scheming and then Rick & Co discovering that he'd become the new Negan.

Unless Eugene had a Jekyl and Hyde personality change, there's no way the Saviors would follow him. Most are apparently ex cons and gang members - some of whom may have been liberated from a correctional facility by Negan, which would explain their loyalty. Imagine being trapped in a cell when all the guards have fled or turned. Knowing there's no one coming and no way out. You're going to die slowly. How horrible would that be? Then someone comes to your rescue and lets you out. A guy with real charisma, who makes you a trusted lieutenant and gives you a good life. Quite possibly the closest thing to family you've ever had. Of course you'd be loyal!

@chrisjdel said:

@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

This is a great question - I was never a fan of Eugene and his constant whining whilst with Rick & the gang, but they have a real opportunity to do something interesting with his character now.

That Sasha would somehow fail to chomp Negan was as inevitable as the fact that she would be in place zombified to do so in the first place - however, whilst this was being set up, I couldn't help but think what a great twist it would be if she had actually killed Negan and the season had ended with the set up of a power struggle within the saviours prior to the all out war...

I'd loved to have seen this evolved Eugene seeing off Simon through some devious scheming and then Rick & Co discovering that he'd become the new Negan.

Unless Eugene had a Jekyl and Hyde personality change, there's no way the Saviors would follow him. Most are apparently ex cons and gang members - some of whom may have been liberated from a correctional facility by Negan, which would explain their loyalty. Imagine being trapped in a cell when all the guards have fled or turned. Knowing there's no one coming and no way out. You're going to die slowly. How horrible would that be? Then someone comes to your rescue and lets you out. A guy with real charisma, who makes you a trusted lieutenant and gives you a good life. Quite possibly the closest thing to family you've ever had. Of course you'd be loyal!

Oh yeah, of course the saviours are loyal to Negan himself - never in doubt - but what I was saying would be interesting was playing out Eugene a little unexpectedly if Negan had been killed.

We've seen Eugene "toughen up", not mind you because he wants to but, as per his act with Abraham, he's again found a niche position in order to hide his innate fearful, cowardly character and ensure his survival, to the best of his abilities.

We've already seen him barking out orders to the lackies and I think it would have been interesting to see him having to push this new survivalist persona he's developing further by realising Simon would be looking to off him. Understanding that the saviours are very much an indoctrinated group of followers, his best path would be as a leader and subsequently he turns into a brutal monster all driven all along by his insecurity and fears.

That would be a far more interesting character development to see imo than, say, Carol who is pretty much a plot device rather than an credible characterisation...

I think you're onto something there Midi. Still, better to keep it to yourself lest you give the writers any good ideas.

@chrisjdel said:

Those suspicions could always return of course, if more stuff that isn't quite kosher happens around his new handyman.

The problem with people like Negan, is others want what he has. Meaning, aside from rebellions, mutiny and assassination attempts, he has to worry about his own people wanting to be Negan. So he will always be suspicious of everyone all the time. It's just one of those traits you have to have in order to maintain power. All Mafia Dons probably felt the same way.

@TheShredder said:

@chrisjdel said:

Those suspicions could always return of course, if more stuff that isn't quite kosher happens around his new handyman.

The problem with people like Negan, is others want what he has. Meaning, aside from rebellions, mutiny and assassination attempts, he has to worry about his own people wanting to be Negan. So he will always be suspicious of everyone all the time. It's just one of those traits you have to have in order to maintain power. All Mafia Dons probably felt the same way.

Excellent point.

Well , depends , if Eugene switch side in the last minute , maybe they will accpt him back .

Depends on how switch side

If Eugene switch side after the tide of the War has turn in favor of Rick , then his former friends will have a doubt about him .

But if Eugene would save a few people , like when Rick's group are about to lose and surrounded by Negan 's force , if Eugene would switch side and save the entire group , then i think Eugene would be OK.

And As Eugene had identified himself as "Negan" in front of a lot of people , Rick's group could put Euegne on trail for war crime