@LadyGigi said:

@Satch_the_man said:

@LadyGigi said:

Eugene's expression of self-preservation seems more like a filthy traitor to me. Daryl was under captivity as well yet he never switched sides like Eugene did. Daryl only cooperated to stay alive but did so begrudgingly. Eugene is willing. I think that Eugene would be highly upset if he had to go back to the life and status he had at Alexandria.

What I loved about the recent all-Eugene and Dwight ep of the show in the last season was that I could really relate to Eugene in it. Eugene is no Daryl...he's cowardly. As that girl led him to his quarters in the Sanctuary, I seem to recall him crying. The way I see it, there's a thin line between everything. What Daryl did was brave, and then he killed the fat guy and escaped. Eugene doesn't want anyone to get hurt, but people did get hurt...it's traitorous, but he could turn out to be a monkey wrench in Neg's plans anyway. He was a monkey wrench in that his and Sasha's gambit caused Rick and co. to beat Neg's people in that first battle.

Sasha begged him to do that. Eugene didn't offer it and he certainly did not give her the idea either.

Sasha didn't give up on Eugene, and I'm not either!

@Satch_the_man said:

@LadyGigi said:

@Satch_the_man said:

@LadyGigi said:

Eugene's expression of self-preservation seems more like a filthy traitor to me. Daryl was under captivity as well yet he never switched sides like Eugene did. Daryl only cooperated to stay alive but did so begrudgingly. Eugene is willing. I think that Eugene would be highly upset if he had to go back to the life and status he had at Alexandria.

What I loved about the recent all-Eugene and Dwight ep of the show in the last season was that I could really relate to Eugene in it. Eugene is no Daryl...he's cowardly. As that girl led him to his quarters in the Sanctuary, I seem to recall him crying. The way I see it, there's a thin line between everything. What Daryl did was brave, and then he killed the fat guy and escaped. Eugene doesn't want anyone to get hurt, but people did get hurt...it's traitorous, but he could turn out to be a monkey wrench in Neg's plans anyway. He was a monkey wrench in that his and Sasha's gambit caused Rick and co. to beat Neg's people in that first battle.

Sasha begged him to do that. Eugene didn't offer it and he certainly did not give her the idea either.

Sasha didn't give up on Eugene, and I'm not either!

Well I have until I see him make different decisions.

@LadyGigi said:

Eugene's expression of self-preservation seems more like a filthy traitor to me. Daryl was under captivity as well yet he never switched sides like Eugene did. Daryl only cooperated to stay alive but did so begrudgingly. Eugene is willing. I think that Eugene would be highly upset if he had to go back to the life and status he had at Alexandria.

That's like comparing a Marine Vietnam Vet to Bill Gates. You're not supposed to expect them to behave the same, nor hold the same level of accomplishments.

@TheShredder said:

@LadyGigi said:

Eugene's expression of self-preservation seems more like a filthy traitor to me. Daryl was under captivity as well yet he never switched sides like Eugene did. Daryl only cooperated to stay alive but did so begrudgingly. Eugene is willing. I think that Eugene would be highly upset if he had to go back to the life and status he had at Alexandria.

That's like comparing a Marine Vietnam Vet to Bill Gates. You're not supposed to expect them to behave the same, nor hold the same level of accomplishments.

I expect that if Bill Gates were ever kidnapped by Al Queda or ISIL that Bill wouldn't betray the US president or US citizens. The same thing I would expect from a marine.

@LadyGigi said:

I expect that if Bill Gates were ever kidnapped by Al Queda or ISIL that Bill wouldn't betray the US president or US citizens. The same thing I would expect from a marine.

Well, be prepared to be disappointed. I very much doubt Mr. Gates has the will and strength to withstand torture the way a combat hardened war vet could.

@TheShredder said:

@LadyGigi said:

I expect that if Bill Gates were ever kidnapped by Al Queda or ISIL that Bill wouldn't betray the US president or US citizens. The same thing I would expect from a marine.

Well, be prepared to be disappointed. I very much doubt Mr. Gates has the will and strength to withstand torture the way a combat hardened war vet could.

Morals are at play here as well dontcha think?

@LadyGigi said:

Morals are at play here as well dontcha think?

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of torture.

@TheShredder said:

@LadyGigi said:

Morals are at play here as well dontcha think?

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of torture.

Yes I do. Trust me.

@TheShredder said:

@LadyGigi said:

Morals are at play here as well dontcha think?

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of torture.

Anyway I'm unsure of where your analogy is going? If you're on the subject of torture, Negan has three methods: the iron, the hole and that Easy Street music. Now granted having to listen to that song on repeat while you're locked in a dark room would be harsher than it being the only song available for you to listen to in a fairly comfortable setting like the room Eugene is assigned to - I distinctly remember Eugene bobbing his head to the music Negan uses as a source of torture.

I remember Rosita practically harassing Eugene to make a bullet for her to assassinate Negan because Eugene didn't want to make it. Eugene also refused to give the death pill to Negan's wives so that they could kill Negan with it. And rather than plotting with Sasha to get out of captivity through any means necessary, like what Sherry did for Daryl, Eugene opts to give Sasha the death pill so that she is only a danger to herself and not Negan.

Eugene has switched sides. I would argue that Eugene doesn't want Negan dead at all.

@LadyGigi said:

@TheShredder said:

@LadyGigi said:

Morals are at play here as well dontcha think?

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of torture.

Anyway I'm unsure of where your analogy is going? If you're on the subject of torture, Negan has three methods: the iron, the hole and that Easy Street music. Now granted having to listen to that song on repeat while you're locked in a dark room would be harsher than it being the only song available for you to listen to in a fairly comfortable setting like the room Eugene is assigned to - I distinctly remember Eugene bobbing his head to the music Negan uses as a source of torture.

I remember Rosita practically harassing Eugene to make a bullet for her to assassinate Negan because Eugene didn't want to make it. Eugene also refused to give the death pill to Negan's wives so that they could kill Negan with it. And rather than plotting with Sasha to get out of captivity through any means necessary, like what Sherry did for Daryl, Eugene opts to give Sasha the death pill so that she is only a danger to herself and not Negan.

Eugene has switched sides. I would argue that Eugene doesn't want Negan dead at all.

Eugene is always playing some angle. You never know what his real motivations are, or what he's going to do. I think he's also one of those people who tends to get lost in the lies he spins. Like an FBI agent becoming so immersed in their cover identity they almost start to forget who they really are. But this is what makes Eugene such a unique character. Is he on Rick's side? Negan's? Or nobody's side but his own, whatever best serves his interests at any given moment? We still don't know.

Of course Eugene switched sides. That's not even a topic of debate. You claimed that Eugene SHOULD HAVE resisted Negan, the way Darryl did. I'm saying that Darryl and Eugene is like comparing a Marine to a computer nerd. No way in hell a nerd will be able to do what a marine can do.

@chrisjdel said:

@LadyGigi said:

@TheShredder said:

@LadyGigi said:

Morals are at play here as well dontcha think?

I don't think you quite grasp the concept of torture.

Anyway I'm unsure of where your analogy is going? If you're on the subject of torture, Negan has three methods: the iron, the hole and that Easy Street music. Now granted having to listen to that song on repeat while you're locked in a dark room would be harsher than it being the only song available for you to listen to in a fairly comfortable setting like the room Eugene is assigned to - I distinctly remember Eugene bobbing his head to the music Negan uses as a source of torture.

I remember Rosita practically harassing Eugene to make a bullet for her to assassinate Negan because Eugene didn't want to make it. Eugene also refused to give the death pill to Negan's wives so that they could kill Negan with it. And rather than plotting with Sasha to get out of captivity through any means necessary, like what Sherry did for Daryl, Eugene opts to give Sasha the death pill so that she is only a danger to herself and not Negan.

Eugene has switched sides. I would argue that Eugene doesn't want Negan dead at all.

Eugene is always playing some angle. You never know what his real motivations are, or what he's going to do. I think he's also one of those people who tends to get lost in the lies he spins. Like an FBI agent becoming so immersed in their cover identity they almost start to forget who they really are. But this is what makes Eugene such a unique character. Is he on Rick's side? Negan's? Or nobody's side but his own, whatever best serves his interests at any given moment? We still don't know.

Just understand that it is obvious to me that Eugene's "angle" is that of a selfish power seeking traitor.

@elliotthomas97 said:

He's transformed into one of the show's most interesting characters. I never would've thought that three seasons ago. I don't see him getting the chop anytime soon.

As long as he gets punched out unconscious a couple more times like Abraham did to him, I'll be amused again.

@LadyGigi said:

Just understand that it is obvious to me that Eugene's "angle" is that of a selfish power seeking traitor.

Not sure about power-seeking. He's just looking to stay alive because he's shitscared of, well, everything.

@larz9 said:

@elliotthomas97 said:

He's transformed into one of the show's most interesting characters. I never would've thought that three seasons ago. I don't see him getting the chop anytime soon.

As long as he gets punched out unconscious a couple more times like Abraham did to him, I'll be amused again.

I'm all for that idea.