I think I'm mostly in agreement with you. Seasons 1-4 really lived up to the hype but it has steadily declined since.

I think the more the fantasy elements (dragons, zombies etc) creeped into story the worse the show became. It feels like a completely different show now. Last night was even more rushed and filled with forced meetings and dialogue.

I just rewatched season 5 of Breaking Bad and these 2 shows are night and day in terms of development. GoT has more characters but still they've been horrible running this once Martin's material ran out. Every single shot in BB was carefully planned out in consideration for what comes before and after. Lately GoT is nearly random

So you thought that the show was going in one direction and then it went in a different direction and now you're upset. Since you didn't describe what your "direction" was, all this is very vague.

I agree in not liking zombie stories. But it was mostly used well here, dramatizing how the Westerosi are too tied up in their own feuds to consider a serious threat from outside. ( Sort of like the midievals doing petty politics while Europe was nearly wiped out by the Mongol invasion and the Black Death).

@CharlesTheBold said:

So you thought that the show was going in one direction and then it went in a different direction and now you're upset. Since you didn't describe what your "direction" was, all this is very vague.

I agree in not liking zombie stories. But it was mostly used well here, dramatizing how the Westerosi are too tied up in their own feuds to consider a serious threat from outside. ( Sort of like the midievals doing petty politics while Europe was nearly wiped out by the Mongol invasion and the Black Death).

Well, I just binge watched recently, and when you binge watch, the momentum or direction a show is going in is more visceral obviously because of the rapid progression experience, as opposed to waiting for a year or week to week. And I see what they did to slow it down and change it. It almost works on paper: put Tyrion in as Dany's left hand to slow her down and justify it with Tyrion's ambiguity and divisiveness in that he also has feelings and sentimentality towards Jaime and the city and family he grew up with. But when put on screen, it just inhibited the momentum, direction, and Dany's and Tyrion's once great characters. Tyrion became a thorn to the side of Dany's momentum and acted like a sedative to her ambition and the flow of the show. He's the stop, or yield, sign to the events that were destined to transpire. I mean heck, he even gave her advice that got a part of her forces destroyed and Olena Tyrrell killed this season. If Dany wasn't under his guidance (and does it really make sense really? Dany has a character type that wouldn't listen to someone like Tyrion really) she would have rushed in and burned KL 10 episodes ago at all costs and collateral. She lost the unsullied anyway with Tyrion's guidance (even though they miraculously reappeared last episode- were there some leftover or were they Dothraki in disguise? By Euron wiped them out it seemed)..

It just stalled from the true direction it was going. Even the timing of winter had to be perfected rather than natural in the sense of Jon Snow's concerns also inhibiting her momentum and desire to invade. They just slowed it all down to set the pieces in place for the end game, season 8, rather than just take the show to its true destiny at a more natural place in time. Season 7 was just one big delay, and somewhat of a mess as a result. The characters, especially Dany and Snow wouldn't do the things they are doing. They're uncharacteristic in their choices and decisions. Again, insert Tyrion in as a plot device and on paper it seems to be a good way to do it, but if you binge watched it like I did, it deflated the actual direction it was going.

In addition, I'll give another perfect simile: when arya's natural direction would have been to go to KL south, but she literally chose the road north to Winterfell. That is not her true nature, development, or character at the time, and it set up this uncharacteristic version of herself, and the somewhat meandering tediousness in WF this season. That could be the moment the show jumped the shark: all previous info and knowledge we learned would have Arya go to KL at that moment to work on her hit list, but she goes to WF. Why? Another "stall" of the true direction and momentum to stretch out 1 final season. But the risk was too great, and season 7 was the show's worst as a result. If Arya goes south and Dany either kills Tyrion or attacks on her usual instincts with grandiosity as a conquering usurper 10-15 episodes or so ago, then the direction would be coherent and true. But this season and some of last undermined everything we knew about the characters and their nature and motives, thus destroying its natural direction. All to squeeze one final season out of the cash cow.

What you're seeing is once the writers could not rely on GRRM's books anymore for plot, the show suffered. I still very much like the show, but it's not quite the same. I differ from you in that I liked the finale. I did however hate many things this season (esp last week) with the ridiculous leaps of faith. The major one last night was Cersei securing the Golden Company. What? She paid the debt which was foolish. The Iron Bank had no reason to continue funding her esp. considering she had no other army to speak of. The IB sides with the probable winner. The Unsullied appearing last night though...who said they were gone? Euron burned their ships but they easily took Casterly Rock.

Where I differ with you is...the fight with the army of the dead has always been the end game. The show starts with a cold open of the dead killing men from the Night's Watch. You're not a fan of the Night King or any of that? It's always been a fantasy show despite many characters not being aware that "the monsters are real". I'm devastated to wait so long for the last season to see how it ends. I encourage you to read the books if you have not already, you'll appreciate the original source material much more and see where the show went wrong.

The show is set in a fantasy world but that doesn't mean it's always been a complete fantasy. Martin himself wanted to root the story in some relatable realism to make it more effective.

Folks mentioned my name in disgust.

My work here is complete

@WalkenOnSunshine said:

What you're seeing is once the writers could not rely on GRRM's books anymore for plot, the show suffered. I still very much like the show, but it's not quite the same. I differ from you in that I liked the finale. I did however hate many things this season (esp last week) with the ridiculous leaps of faith. The major one last night was Cersei securing the Golden Company. What? She paid the debt which was foolish. The Iron Bank had no reason to continue funding her esp. considering she had no other army to speak of. The IB sides with the probable winner. The Unsullied appearing last night though...who said they were gone? Euron burned their ships but they easily took Casterly Rock.

Where I differ with you is...the fight with the army of the dead has always been the end game. The show starts with a cold open of the dead killing men from the Night's Watch. You're not a fan of the Night King or any of that? It's always been a fantasy show despite many characters not being aware that "the monsters are real". I'm devastated to wait so long for the last season to see how it ends. I encourage you to read the books if you have not already, you'll appreciate the original source material much more and see where the show went wrong.

Thanks. Well, to be fair, I do know and respect that the night army invasion is the "end game" and how it began in scene 1, but it's just that I don't like the way that it unfolded. Stuff like last week's episode are prime examples, and maybe bigger examples than I even realize, as to why I feel that way. I didn't like how they had to bring the wight to Cersei to prove it, and how, actually, Cersei and everyone else just instantly believed them and accepted it at face value. There was no resistance or skepticism from anyone on the "enemy" King' Landing/Lannisters team. I'm sorry, but I thought that whole reveal to Cersei and how it all went down could have been better, and that's not asking much since I thought it was pretty bad.

This is one example what I mean about the show "lost me". I'm just not buying a lot of it now...This, Dany/Jon, Dany's sedation, heck even Greyjoy, who is a character I don't care about really, going back to save his sister and the army just changing their minds when they were just adamant about going the other direction (okay he killed Harrag, but still. They just change their mind in an instant? No talking, discussion, or any resistance.)

Then there's Arya, and it really bugs me once again that she did not go to King's Landing after killing Walden. That was a given. But they uncharacteristically send her to Winterfell for Stark kids melodrama and to add a death to season 7 of significance (LF) of anyone but their adversarial favorites in King's Landing, who they need for season 8. In the true nature of the show, to me, Arya goes South and is hiding out, disgusing herself beyond and just outside the walls of KL in season 7, and taking out a few more people on her kill list. These are just some examples. I also do not like how easily Viserion died, and also once again how idiotic that whole "mission" was in many ways.

It's better than most shows, if only for the special effects alone (although there is more quality than that; some fine acting comes along every now and then too, something i rarely if ever saw on other fantasy shows like the walking dead), but the story just lost me. I won't be excited for season 8 because of season 7 and the finale, but I'll definitely catch it on a binge watch once it's over.

I agree with everything you said there. The show has gone off the rails big time in the writing dept. I'll still watch because I'm an addict though. The acting (with the exception of the Sand Snakes) has been excellent. So many things like you said do not make sense. Why would they think Cersei (Tyrion especially) would care about an army of the dead in the North. Her betrayal was exactly what I expected her to do. The writers for the show use far too many plot devices instead of just letting it flow and forcing characters to come together.

Do you plan on reading the books? Even if you're not much of a reader, it's worth taking it slow to get more of the details of the story.

Targaryens married within their family, just like the royals in our real history. Also it didn't bother me at all because it's not a real world, and in their world it isn't as messed up.

So I'm assuming it's the White Walkers you have a problem with?

The White Walkers were presented as a looming threat ever since the opening scene of the first episode. I've enjoyed the political intrigue, scheming and backstabbing as well but it's been a forgone conclusion that the White Walkers were going take center stage in the end.

If that indeed is what you dislike most about the show, then you probably should have stopped watching years ago.

@mechajutaro said:

Targaryens married within their family, just like the royals in our real history. Also it didn't bother me at all because it's not a real world, and in their world it isn't as messed up.

All of our ancestors in the primordial, pre literate yesteryear most likely partook in cannibalism, infanticide, human sacrifice, and tribal wars were no quarter was given to anyone. Doesn't make any of these practices any more unsettling.

Well yeah, but all of those things are far more unsettling than two people who don't know they're related hooking up. Even if they did..would that stop then? I guess we'll find out (in a long assss time ahhh).

"Then there's Arya, and it really bugs me once again that she did not go to King's Landing after killing Walden. That was a given."

Season 6 Episode 8: "This girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I'm going home." Home being Winterfell.

You're just reading your preferences in and describing them as the "real direction" of the show. The same 2 guys have been in charge all along, and I presume they know what their direction is.

I know of shows that did go off the rails, but that was usually due to network meddling by studio hacks that didn't understand the shows. Like "wouldn't it be fun if the romantic lead betrayed the main character?" (JOAN OF ARCADIA) or "let's kill off the female lead" (Martin's own BEAUTY AND THE BEAST)

I'd just point out that Euron's forces didn't attack the unsullied, but rather destroyed their ship and leaving them stuck in Casterly Rock. At that point they were given pretty much a choice, stay there and defend Casterly Rock, which was pretty much worthless, or leave. I'm pretty sure it was said during the Olenna and Jamie dialogue at the end of that very episode.

@mechajutaro said:

The Snow-Dany romance is one of the most "forced" romances I've ever seen.

You're less disturbed by dude boning his aunt than the romance itself not coming across very convincing, which is almost certainly just as attributable to these roles being occupied by Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke as it is to the writing and direction of the show. Fascinating...

Lol. Sorry but in a show where episode #1 had incest going on between, even worse, BROTHER AND SISTER...WHO KNEW THEY WERE BROTHER AND SISTER, you're arguing this? And that's not to mention all the gay and lesbian sex scenes and what have you. Believe me, it is no longer a shock that Game of Thrones shows incest. Cersei and Jaime ram it in your face every several episodes or so from ep 1. And personally, I was never impressed by it; it just came to be stuff I overlooked to get to the storylines I actually liked and was interested in.

Even though I know she is SUPPOSED to be his aunt, I don't fully buy that. Like I said, I don't buy many of the directions the show is going in even if I know I'm "supposed" to. I can know these two are related, but based on how the whole story of the show developed, I don't fully buy it. Predicated on the whole thing feeling forced, I am really indifferent about the whole thing and look at it as just another plot device to set up the final season and cater to the fans, etc. It's like last weeks episode: I know I'm supposed to believe that Uncle Ben appeared out of thin air and somehow knew Jon was behind and got there just in the nick of time, but I don't buy it. Just like hypothermia avoidance dropping in ice water.

_"which is almost certainly just as attributable to these roles being occupied by Kit Harrington and Emilia Clarke as it is to the writing and direction of the show" _

That's part of it too, actually. That's part of what I mean. There is also their ages, etc.

In addition, to be totally honest, I think the whole "Jon Snow is REALLY Aeghar" thing is far fetched, and once again, that's another thing I'm not really buying. Like I said, the list is too long; it can go on forever, but thanks for reminding me. How convenient: all of a sudden Jon Snow is not only not ned's basterd and really a Targaryen, but he's also a completely different PERSON entirely, with a completely different FIRST AND last name. Lol. Good one. Where'd they come up with that one? Out of thin air again like Uncle Benjen teleportation. What's next? Bran can now fly as fast as dragons? Or Danaerys is really Queen of the Dead? how about Danaerys is really Cersei's sister? Sure. Whatever fits the deus ex machina the show has committed to now.

@spreerod1538 said:

I'd just point out that Euron's forces didn't attack the unsullied, but rather destroyed their ship and leaving them stuck in Casterly Rock. At that point they were given pretty much a choice, stay there and defend Casterly Rock, which was pretty much worthless, or leave. I'm pretty sure it was said during the Olenna and Jamie dialogue at the end of that very episode.

Okay, thanks for that. I read a couple of the reviews for this and a few people said this. But it's the only thing I wasn't sure about of all of my points. Guess it was suspect related to the fact that Euron built 100 ships in two weeks or so, or something like that, before that attack. But you're right.