@A to Z said:

Who should they have cast?

Why do so many people believe that only "known" movie stars can open films these days? Scarlett was a nobody before she got her big break. Are you claiming that they could not have cast an unknown actress and had a successful run?

From the reviews, the strengths of the movie are that it adheres fairly well to the manga while making some adjustments. It also has great effects. However, perhaps the producers felt that the screenplay wasn't good enough to elevate a lesser-known actress and instead resorted to stunt-casting Johanssen hoping it would make up for the weaknesses.

For me, a brand-new potential franchise with deep roots in a popular graphic Japanese format would seem to be a great starting place for a new, exciting actress. If the casting agents and producers had done their jobs, maybe they would have ended up in a better place? I think Hollywood is more risk-averse than ever, hence we get so many of these casting choices that recycle the same actors over and over.

Oh wow, it's funny how you are suddenly so concerned about "casting" for this film only. I think we all know that your real motivation here is racism.

@A to Z said:

Oh wow, it's funny how you are suddenly so concerned about "casting" for this film only. I think we all know that your real motivation here is racism.

I don't know who "we" is, but no, I don't see his real motivation is racism at all. And, "casting" is not a new conversation, and certainly not for this film only. You've brought plenty more of your own baggage into this conversation than anyone else at whom your itchy trigger finger is taking aim.

@AlienFanatic said:

@A to Z said:

Who should they have cast?

Why do so many people believe that only "known" movie stars can open films these days? Scarlett was a nobody before she got her big break. Are you claiming that they could not have cast an unknown actress and had a successful run?

From the reviews, the strengths of the movie are that it adheres fairly well to the manga while making some adjustments. It also has great effects. However, perhaps the producers felt that the screenplay wasn't good enough to elevate a lesser-known actress and instead resorted to stunt-casting Johanssen hoping it would make up for the weaknesses.

For me, a brand-new potential franchise with deep roots in a popular graphic Japanese format would seem to be a great starting place for a new, exciting actress. If the casting agents and producers had done their jobs, maybe they would have ended up in a better place? I think Hollywood is more risk-averse than ever, hence we get so many of these casting choices that recycle the same actors over and over.

Normally most unknown actors and actresses start off with a Horror film because of how easy they are to make, however ScarJo started off as a child star in North but her first big movie was Lost in Translation and then later on she would in the Marvel Avenger movies starting with Iron Man 2.

@Rocketeer Raccoon said:

Normally most unknown actors and actresses start off with a Horror film because of how easy they are to make, however ScarJo started off as a child star in North but her first big movie was Lost in Translation and then later on she would in the Marvel Avenger movies starting with Iron Man 2.

Most of my favourite actors either have never done a horror movie, or did do a thriller/horror only after their careers were well established. I won't bother to list them, but suffice to say I'm not convinced "most unknowns start off with horror."

I will say, though, that I've seen ScarJo in a few movies beyond the Marvel Comics Universe (Lucy, Lost In Translation to name just two), and liked her/them.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Rocketeer Raccoon said:

Normally most unknown actors and actresses start off with a Horror film because of how easy they are to make, however ScarJo started off as a child star in North but her first big movie was Lost in Translation and then later on she would in the Marvel Avenger movies starting with Iron Man 2.

Most of my favourite actors either have never done a horror movie, or did do a thriller/horror only after their careers were well established. I won't bother to list them, but suffice to say I'm not convinced "most unknowns start off with horror."

I will say, though, that I've seen ScarJo in a few movies beyond the Marvel Comics Universe (Lucy, Lost In Translation to name just two), and liked her/them.

Well I guess I'm just generalising, Johnny Depp's first movie was A Nightmare on Elm Street, that's probably where I got my generation from but of course everyone starts off differently. I've never seen Lost in Translation, I suppose that film is more down to Earth but I don't know, I'm not that keen on her.

@Rocketeer Raccoon Fair enough!

@Rocketeer Raccoon said:

Normally most unknown actors and actresses start off with a Horror film because of how easy they are to make

I'd say that this has been true for quite a few actors, but I don't think that that many of them made their name in those films. Perhaps Jamie Lee Curtis, but while folks like Johnny Depp and Matthew McConaughy(sp) may have debuted in those films, they found their stardom elsewhere. (Johnny on TV in 21 Jump Street and then later in Tim Burton films and McConnaughy really built his brand slowly with legal dramas and action movies.)

Movie "stars" often come about suddenly. I wouldn't say that Chris Pratt was famous after being on Parks & Rec, but after Guardians of the Galaxy hit it big. His co-star in Passengers, Jennifer Lawrence, got almost instant fame being cast in the Hunger Games movies and then did fantastic work in David O Russell movies to cement her legitimacy as a serious actress.

My own example that pops into my head is how Star Wars made a mint with largely unknown actors besides Alec Guinness. While only Harrison Ford would go on to become a bonafide "star," their lack of fame did not seem to hurt the film at all.

I'm not a huge fan of GitS. Yes, I watched the Japanese anime movie years ago (same with Akira) and thought it stylish and very well-drawn, but the concepts didn't really resonate. What I did come away with, though, was a strong visual sense, a certain cyborg/futuristic aesthetic, and rumination on robotics and conspiracy. (I'm hazy about the specifics anymore.) In retrospect, you can almost see the tracings they took from Blade Runner.

I didn't think that "The Major" would mean anything to anyone outside of the narrow circle of anime die-hards that hold GitS, Akira, Appleseed, and others of the same genre sacrosanct. For me, then, the name of the actress seemed less important than how the film resembled the manga/anime and how it could draw in legions of people that had never seen them before. That's why I think ScarJo wasn't essential to the movie, and why I think a strong, articulate Asian actress would have been perfect. The original is EXTREMELY Japanese in tone and presentation and, despite the arguments that The Major is caucasian (or isn't), it's hard to deny that there's a certain aesthetic at play.

I don't care about social justice in movies. It feels like filmmakers are too busy trying to brainwash instead of entertain. But when an action movie ignores the essential nature of its subject matter, I think it opens itself for valid criticism.

@AlienFanatic said:

@Rocketeer Raccoon said:

Normally most unknown actors and actresses start off with a Horror film because of how easy they are to make

I'd say that this has been true for quite a few actors, but I don't think that that many of them made their name in those films. Perhaps Jamie Lee Curtis, but while folks like Johnny Depp and Matthew McConaughy(sp) may have debuted in those films, they found their stardom elsewhere. (Johnny on TV in 21 Jump Street and then later in Tim Burton films and McConnaughy really built his brand slowly with legal dramas and action movies.)

Movie "stars" often come about suddenly. I wouldn't say that Chris Pratt was famous after being on Parks & Rec, but after Guardians of the Galaxy hit it big. His co-star in Passengers, Jennifer Lawrence, got almost instant fame being cast in the Hunger Games movies and then did fantastic work in David O Russell movies to cement her legitimacy as a serious actress.

My own example that pops into my head is how Star Wars made a mint with largely unknown actors besides Alec Guinness. While only Harrison Ford would go on to become a bonafide "star," their lack of fame did not seem to hurt the film at all.

I'm not a huge fan of GitS. Yes, I watched the Japanese anime movie years ago (same with Akira) and thought it stylish and very well-drawn, but the concepts didn't really resonate. What I did come away with, though, was a strong visual sense, a certain cyborg/futuristic aesthetic, and rumination on robotics and conspiracy. (I'm hazy about the specifics anymore.) In retrospect, you can almost see the tracings they took from Blade Runner.

I didn't think that "The Major" would mean anything to anyone outside of the narrow circle of anime die-hards that hold GitS, Akira, Appleseed, and others of the same genre sacrosanct. For me, then, the name of the actress seemed less important than how the film resembled the manga/anime and how it could draw in legions of people that had never seen them before. That's why I think ScarJo wasn't essential to the movie, and why I think a strong, articulate Asian actress would have been perfect. The original is EXTREMELY Japanese in tone and presentation and, despite the arguments that The Major is caucasian (or isn't), it's hard to deny that there's a certain aesthetic at play.

I don't care about social justice in movies. It feels like filmmakers are too busy trying to brainwash instead of entertain. But when an action movie ignores the essential nature of its subject matter, I think it opens itself for valid criticism.

Well said.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@OddRob Re: their "taking the easy way out", you might be right!

Re: hypocrisy, no one likes hypocrisy, but please don't attempt to suggest it only comes from the Left. We can break this message board volleying examples back and forth at each other from either side of the political spectrum, and I don't think the spirit of this message board would be upheld in so doing.

Re: privilege (whether male, white or otherwise), you can do your own homework to understand how that works. Or not. It's up to you.

I am right. If this film made back 70 million in one week they would be praising the casting. But since its under performing they would rather blame that than the actually fact that this movie is lacking most of everything that made the original Anime great. And yes no one likes hypocrisy, but the Left and the SJWs have been full of it for a really longtime now. Plenty of examples around. And Ive seen plenty of examples of 'privilege' that people seem to make up. Do some home work yourself.

EDIT: After reading the rest of the comments Id like to add this. This is a huge Hollywood studio production costing around 110 million. Now double that, usually, for the marketing and we are looking at around 330 million total investment. Do people actually think the studio would hire an unknown actress for this role? Or one that dosent have any pull in Hollywood? Im not saying that dosent happen. But unless the production specifically wants unknowns or if the production itself is a huge name, like Star Wars for example, its very rare for Hollywood to give someone a chance on a big project like this. Its all about managing risk. They put in so much money into a film that they want the best odds to get back as much money as possible. And Hollywood dosent make films to break even. Unless they make double its budget back, it counts as a loss.

This isnt some indie film where the director and the screenplay are basically in charge. People have other people to report to and held accountable. There is a certain hierarchy to follow and all of Hollywood follows it. Its a business, and like a business its all about the money. People crying about 'whitewashing' cant really seem to grasp that at all.

Scarlett was the best choice I think the producers could come up with. The last Underworld film made $30,353,973 in the US and Worldwide: $81,093,313. The last Resident Evil movie made $26,830,068 in the US and Worldwide: $312,242,626 becasue of non US box office of $285,412,558. The RE movie made $159 million in China. "Ghost in the Shell" has not opened in China or Japan yet.

As for Jolie, she is 41. Too old for the part.

"Ghost in the Shell" needs at least 2 months before its worldwide box office is known.

Imo at least, BB ;-)

Personally I think the casting had very little effect on the box office numbers. The reviews probably did have some effect though.

Ultimately though I think it was just a cultural thing. Anime has a niche audience in the US, but the audience isn't big enough to make a blockbuster movie. Even if the film was casted the right way and got great reviews I still expected it to underperform.

@A to Z said:

Yeah, I'm sure casting an unknown Japanese actress for the role of the obviously white character Major instead of the only actress in the world who can currently sell a female lead action film would have helped the film a ton.

The actual lesson that needs to be learned is that if you are going to adapt a successful source material, then actually stick to the spirit of the original instead of stripping it of its soul and making it a bland and boring action film.

This. Couldn't agree more. If you are going to do a remake/adaption, then slap an American star on it so that it gets wide release in the US - make it a decent movie!

@DRDMovieMusings said:

Paramount Executive Admits Whitewashing Controversy Hurt Ghost in the Shell at the Box Office

Couldn't care less about the trolls who call it "whitewashing", it wasn't a good film.

@Olon said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

Paramount Executive Admits Whitewashing Controversy Hurt Ghost in the Shell at the Box Office

Couldn't care less about the trolls who call it "whitewashing", it wasn't a good film.

Yeah, so true, I don't think it really ever was to do with the whitewashing, they say this BS just to cover up the actual fact that the movie actually isn't very good, that's the most logical reason for why it flopped. It may look like GitS but it lacks the soul of the original manga and the 1995 anime movie, I'm so fed up of these shameless remake/re-adaption movies that are not even trying to make decent movies and the end result is a live action re-adaption of a Japanese manga that failed to work as a movie. Honestly the Matrix is far more faithful for understanding all the concepts they inspired from GitS than this actual movie which is quite sad really. :(