The 'Two Trees of Valinor' (Telperion and Laurelin) were destroyed in the First Age (Years of the Trees) by the first Dark Lord Morgoth (fka Melkor; he was one of the fifteen Ainur, who were named Valar when they entered the world (Arda)).
I really wish we could get Ungoliant and the silmarils in live action.
Ungoliant died and the Silmarils were scattered (sky, earth and sea)
in the First Age (books), but who knows the writers might show flashbacks. Galadriel was born in Y.T. 1362, the 'Two Trees' were destroyed in Y.T. 1495. So if the writers want to be creative, they could have her, Fëanor, and her brother there when Morgoth and Ungoliant are destroying the 'Two Trees'.
A flash back to Ungoliant scaring Morgoth and the Balrogs having to come save him would be awesome.
hope you are well, I'm looking forward to the Carnevale of Venice. ( 27 Jan - !3 Feb )
I have been reading and have collected more information on Gil Galad and Elrond , about their youth and on how their path crossed etc.
You replied:
It is not known why Gil-Galad never married. Perhaps he never found true love, or the war prevented him from marrying. Or Tolkien just wrote it that way, for Gil-galad to be a tragic figure and his lineage to end with him.
@. Gil Galad was 3576 years old when he died, I find it hard to believe he never found love ..also there were long periods of peace during his reign so I don't see he never married due to the wars.
Also, he was king, and usually, kings know the importance of producing an heir.
I have given it some more thought and the only conclusion that makes sense is that High King Gil Galad was gay and most probably he and Elrond were lovers
That would explain :
A. why he gave Vilya to Elrond.. who had become also his herald and
B. why Elrond married Celebrain only after the death of Gil Galad in SA 3441
Elrond met Celebrain in SA 1700… I read he fancied her but he only made his move and asked to marry her in TA 109. That's a 1850 year gap.
We know they had the twins and Arwen. So clearly, Elrond was active under the sheets which meant he was no monk.
So why the 1850 year gap ?.............................. the only logical answer is that he was already involved with someone else ( the High King Gil Galad)
Tolkien didn't mention it openly but one can read between the lines, right?
hope you are well, I'm looking forward to the Carnevale of Venice. ( 27 Jan - !3 Feb )
@sunshine62 Ciao. :relaxed;
Ah Carnival. I always love to watch the parades and the people dancing in their colourful costumes to the rhythm of the high energy music. Too bad it is always in the winter. That means cold weather, snow or rain when you live in the Northern hemisphere. Fortunately there is enough alcohol to keep you warm.
I have been reading and have collected more information on Gil Galad and Elrond , about their youth and on how their path crossed etc.
You replied:
It is not known why Gil-Galad never married. Perhaps he never found true love, or the war prevented him from marrying. Or Tolkien just wrote it that way, for Gil-galad to be a tragic figure and his lineage to end with him.
@. Gil Galad was 3576 years old when he died, I find it hard to believe he never found love ..also there were long periods of peace during his reign so I don't see he never married due to the wars.
Also, he was king, and usually, kings know the importance of producing an heir.
Elves are immortal, and even if they die, they can be reborn in Valinor. If one can live forever, one experiences the passing of time differently and a thousand years mean nothing. Durin was angry at Elrond, because he hadn't seen him in twenty years. Elrond didn't understand, because for him it would have felt like only a couple of months had passed at most.
So, for an elf, a hundred years would have passed just like that. Gil-galad's 3576 years sound like a lot for humans, who only live an average of a hundred years. Remember, as said, Elves are immortal and can live forever and be reborn if they die. How long is forever? It is difficult for a human to comprehend these numbers. A thousand years could be equal to ten years or ten days in the lake of eternity.
Gil-galad doesn't have to be in a hurry to have heirs. Perhaps he wanted to rule forever, and if he died, he would be reborn and could return. One of the reasons Elves don't have that many children is probably because of their innate resistance to change. They prefer that everything should be as it was, as it is should be as it was, forever and ever until the end of time, when they would fade away, content with the life they have lived. Marriage means change and so is having children. That doesn't mean they don't fall in love or marry, but it is something that is not expected from all Elves. In contrast, humans are mortal and need to procreate for the survival of the human species.
By the way, there was never real peace, until Sauron was defeated. Gil-galad could have preferred to spend all his time as a king to ruling and trying to find ways to fight Sauron.
Among humans, there are people who are so consumed by their work, that there is no time or place for anyone else, and even if they met someone, it wouldn't last, as duty would be chosen over personal needs. For Gil-galad a child, a heir would be fine, but could wait, when one is immortal and can rule forever if that is the choice.
Tolkien certainly didn't intend to write all his characters as being in a relationship, like if it was some kind of romance novel. In his later years he did intend to write more and expand on the life of some of his characters. Sadly, he never finished it, before his untimely death.
I have given it some more thought and the only conclusion that makes sense is that High King Gil Galad was gay and most probably he and Elrond were lovers
That would explain :
A. why he gave Vilya to Elrond.. who had become also his herald and
B. why Elrond married Celebrain only after the death of Gil Galad in SA 3441
Elrond met Celebrain in SA 1700… I read he fancied her but he only made his move and asked to marry her in TA 109. That's a 1850 year gap.
So why the 1850 year gap ?.............................. the only logical answer is that he was already involved with someone else ( the High King Gil Galad)
Tolkien didn't mention it openly but one can read between the lines, right?
Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond and Narya to Cirdan before he went to fight the War of the Last Alliance. They were the two he trusted the most. Did he do this, because they were both his lovers in a love triangle?
Gil-galad died, but he would be reborn. Elrond knew this, so he could have waited for him, if they were lovers.
As already said, there was a war and no real peace until Sauron's ultimate defeat, and Elves usually don't marry during that time. Elrond was also a half-Elf - not pure blood - and still had much to prove. Celeborn was probably a very protective father and wouldn't let his daughter Celebrian marry anyone.
I'd rather think he waited to marry, until Sauron was defeated and Celeborn gave his consent when Elrond had proved to be a true Elf and in so doing earned the hand in marriage of Celebrian.
It is too easy to think in human terms. Those 1850 years do sound like a lot, but not for Elves. The war against Sauron was from SA 1693- SA 3441. After that, another hundred years would pass, a long time for humans, but for Elves it probably seemed like a year, as they recovered from the war, healing the wounded lands of Middle-Earth, and Elrond finally had time to court Celebrian, receive Celeborn and Galadriel blessing, and preparations would be made for this royal wedding.
We know they had the twins and Arwen. So clearly, Elrond was active under the sheets which meant he was no monk.
If you assume that Elrond is gay, you could also speculate if his children or really his or from someone else. Should there be a paternity test?
I enjoyed reading your post and appreciate the time you dedicate to me.
Yes, il Carnevale di Venezia is in winter, but it rarely snows there ...you get rainfall and it is cold but like you pointed out, there are ways to keep warm.
You made many points some I agree with others I do not.
You wrote:
Gil-galad doesn't have to be in a hurry to have heirs. Perhaps he wanted to rule forever, and if he died, he would be reborn and could return.
@.As far as I know, the only Elf that was reborn and returned to Arda was Glorfindel.
For example, Elves that die in battle go to the Halls of Mandos for some time and then are sent to Valinor.
And I don't see Gil Galad greedy for power.. after all, he gave his ring to Elrond. And he was wise and brave according to his trait chart.
Anyways, I can see your point that time is perceived differently by Elves.
But Gil Galad being king had responsibilities towards his people.
He is immortal but he can die .. and seeing good part of his life, he and the Elves
are at war with Sauron, I think it would be imperative that a king produce an heir.
Gil Galad was at the head of his troops and he was a target for the enemy. So the prospect of dying in battle was high.
One of the reasons Elves don't have that many children is probably because of their innate resistance to change
@. Yet Elrond married Celebrain in TA 109 and had the twins in the TA 130 and Arwen in the TA 241
He sure didn’t waste time and he had decided to be immortal unlike his brother Elros.
Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond and Narya to Cirdan before he went to fight the War of the Last Alliance. They were the two he trusted the most. Did he do this, because they were both his lovers in a love triangle?
@. Of course, he trusted Cirdan, he was a foster father to Gil Galad since he was a kid and their father/son relationship continued until Ereinion died.
Elrond was also a half-Elven - not pure blood - and still had much to prove. Celeborn was probably a very protective father and wouldn't let his daughter Celebrian marry anyone
@. Elrond was never just “ anyone” his lineage was noble to start with..... then on top of that Gil Galad thought highly of Elrond, and he made him his Herald. That means he was his most trusted advisor, diplomat, and ambassador.
He sent Elrond( not a general ) with troops to help Celebrimbor in Eregion when Sauron attacked in the SA 1695 . So he was Gil Galad's second in command in wartime.
In the SA 1697, with the few survivors, he retreated northward where he founded Imladris (1697 SA)
Gil Galad gave him Vilya and it’s more likely he saw Elrond as his heir. Elrond was I believe the next in line.
So I think Elrond had proved himself.
I'd rather think he waited to marry until Sauron was defeated and Celeborn gave his consent when Elrond had proved to be a true Elf and in so doing earned the hand in marriage of Celebrian
@. I admit, it’s plausible that Elrond might have wanted to wait because he too could have been killed in battle.
Furthermore, if Gil Galad considered Elrond his successor, he might have not felt it necessary to marry and produce an heir. Taking into account these two possibilities would debunk my conclusion that they were gay.
If you assume that Elrond is gay, you could also speculate if his children or really his or from someone else. Should there be a paternity test?
Gay men have had relationships with women and produced offspring so I don’t doubt they were his kids.
I enjoyed reading your post and appreciate the time you dedicate to me.
Yes, il Carnevale di Venezia is in winter, but it rarely snows there ...you get rainfall and it is cold but like you pointed out, there are ways to keep warm.
@sunshine62 Ciao.
I'll see if there are any videos or photos of il Carnevale di Venezia on internet.
@.As far as I know, the only Elf that was reborn and returned to Arda was Glorfindel.
I remember Lúthien, the Elf princess of the Sindar. She is from the tale of love between her and the Man Beren. He died after bringing back one of the Silmarils, and she passed away from a broken heart. Their spirits reunited in the Halls of Mandos, and they were reincarnated. Beren returned to Middle-Earth, and Lúthien accompanied him, giving up her immortality.
Galadriel's brother Finrod, who had sacrificed his life for Beren, was also reincarnated, but he decided to stay in Valinor with his father Finarfin and his beloved Amarië.
He is immortal but he can die .. and seeing good part of his life, he and the Elves
are at war with Sauron, I think it would be imperative that a king produce an heir.
Gil Galad was at the head of his troops and he was a target for the enemy. So the prospect of dying in battle was high.
I agree that Gil-galad should have been looking for someone to have a child with, but it didn't seem to be a priority. Many Elves died during the war and it is ridiculous that the leaders also fought on the front line, with all the risk of dying.
The main characters are related in some way through their family connections. Who succeeds as the next king can be confusing, so I will try to explain.
There were three Elven tribes, and each had their Houses. The Noldor started with the House of Finwë, founded by Finwë, the first High King of the Noldor in Aman. He had three sons:
House of Fëanor: ruled by Fëanor, first son of Finwë and his first wife Míriel.
House of Fingolfin: ruled by Fingolfin. second son of Finwë and first son of his second wife Indis.
House of Finarfin: ruled by Finarfin, third son of Finwë and second son of his second wife Indis.
After Finwë was killed by Melkor (later known as Morgoth) in YT 1495, his first-born son Fëanor became the second High King of the Noldor. He was killed in YT 1497, and when his eldest son Maedhros relinquished his claim on the throne, the kinship was split between the two other sons of Finwë.
Finarfin stayed in Aman and became the third High King of the Noldor there. Fingolfin, who had left for Middle-Earth, became the first High King of the Noldor in Beleriand;
Fingon, the eldest son of Fingolfin, became the second High King. After he died, he was succeeded by his younger brother Turgon (second son of Fingolfin): the third High King.
Turgon only had one child. a daughter, Idril. Females didn't seem to have any rights to succession, so when Turgon died, the throne would be passed on to the next male in line.
Here it becomes interesting for who would become the fourth High King of the Noldor in Middle-Earth. Of course, we know that it would be Gil-galad.
But weren't there any other candidates?
Elrond's father Eärendil was the grandson of Turgon, of the House of Fingolfin, a direct descendant. But he was a half-Elf and too young.
Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin and first cousin of Turgon, but she was a female.
The next suitable male in line was Gil-galad, the great-grandson of Finarfin. Turgon's grandfather Fingolfin was the older brother of Finarfin. So, Gil-galad and Turgon are distant cousins (twice removed).
As you see, everyone is related in some way.
Galadriel is the great aunt of Gil-galad, and the great-grand aunt of Elrond.
Gil-galad and Elrond are very distant cousins (three times removed). Gil-galad's great-grandfather Finarfin is the younger brother of Fingolfin, who is the great-great-grandfather of Elrond on his father's side.
One more thing. Guess who Elrond's great-grand parents are on his mother's side. When you find the answer, you will understand that some things I mention in my posts are not so random.
One of the reasons Elves don't have that many children is probably because of their innate resistance to change
@. Yet Elrond married Celebrain in TA 109 and had the twins in the TA 130 and Arwen in the TA 241
He sure didn’t waste time and he had decided to be immortal unlike his brother Elros.
Of course, when Elves marry, they will have children, but it is finding someone who is their soulmate, which is difficult. Three children in 130 years isn't much as by the end of the Third Age the population in Middle-Earth had declined faster - e.g. due to wars - than the birthrate could keep up with, and as the Age of Men had began, what remained of the Elves departed for Valinor. Those who stayed would fade away or intermingle with the other races.
Elrond was also a half-Elf - not pure blood - and still had much to prove. Celeborn was probably a very protective father and wouldn't let his daughter Celebrian marry anyone
@. Elrond was never just “ anyone” his lineage was noble to start with..... then on top of that Gil Galad thought highly of Elrond, and he made him his Herald. That means he was his most trusted advisor, diplomat, and ambassador.
He sent Elrond( not a general ) with troops to help Celebrimbor in Eregion when Sauron attacked in the SA 1695 . So he was Gil Galad's second in command in wartime.
In the SA 1697, with the few survivors, he retreated northward where he founded Imladris (1697 SA)
Gil Galad gave him Vilya and it’s more likely he saw Elrond as his heir. Elrond was I believe the next in line.
So I think Elrond had proved himself.
He certainly has, but who knows what Celeborn expected from Elrond. Maybe they all just wanted the war with Sauron to be over before getting married and starting a family. Galadriel and Celeborn also got married after Morgoth was defeated. Luckily that war only lasted about 590 years.
For me, the best interaction for now is between Elrond and Durin...There is one thing that bothers me though..I find it hard to imagine Elrond in armor.
Hugo Weaver looked looked the part , he was convincing as a warrior.
I also found on YouTube Ian McKellen and other actors from The Lord of the Rings, who is making fun of the series..They are all entertaining but baby Elrond is super funny.
I also found on YouTube Ian McKellen and other actors from The Lord of the Rings, who is making fun of the series..They are all entertaining but baby Elrond is super funny.
I had hoped that season 2 would explain the inconsistencies - like e.g. the three Elven rings forged first - but it seems to become worse with Gil-Galad, Galadriel and Elrond fighting over them (not in the books).
I've stopped asking myself how Amazon could spend 60-100 million dollars for a single episode. One season costs around $500 - $800 million, excluding the extras. I guess that when you are Amazon, you can adapt a book any way you like, and it doesn't matter how much it costs. There will always be an audience.
The writers of this television series have now made up so much that it is more fan fiction than Tolkien. Every time you try to explain something, the writers will have made up something else, and there are more questions.
If they ever wrote a new series about the Roman Empire, you would have storylines like for example, Julius Caesar and his threesome with Warrior Queen Cleopatra and Mark Antony, after they had spaghetti and meatballs, at Caligula's birthday party, while Nero was playing the guitar, and his mother was making a Baked Alaska Flambé.
If they ever wrote a new series about the Roman Empire, you would have storylines like for example, Julius Caesar and his threesome with Warrior Queen Cleopatra and Mark Antony, after they had spaghetti and meatballs, at Caligula's birthday party, while Nero was playing the guitar, and his mother was making a Baked Alaska Flambé
I see what you mean...... seeing an emotional Spock in Strange New Worlds, hook up with Chapel, pissed me off. All these unnecessary changes trash TOS.
Doesn't this site have emojis anymore?
I didn't know so much money was spent on this series. I don't understand why these mega-productions feel entitled to mess with the original source.
Didn't Annatar share much of his knowledge to help Celebimbor forge the rings? And only after Celebimbor had made the other rings, did he forge the three Elven rings in SECRECY because he didn't trust Annatar anymore.
In the last episode of the first season, Galadriel found out that Halbrand was Sauron...I don't understand why she didn't inform Gil Galad, Elrond and Celebrimbor, immediately. It doesn't make sense that she kept it a secret.
Have you seen Ian McKellen making fun of the show?
I don't know. Sometimes it works. I usually copy and paste or use a shortcode (e.g. : joy :).
Didn't Annatar share much of his knowledge to help Celebimbor forge the rings? And only after Celebimbor had made the other rings, did he forge the three Elven rings in SECRECY because he didn't trust Annatar anymore.
Yes. In approximately S.A. 1500 Annatar taught the Elven smiths how to make the Rings. Then sixteen were created: seven rings for the Dwarf-kings and nine rings for Men. Shortly thereafter Annatar left Eregion for Mordor. About 90 years later in S.A. 1590 Celebrimbor forged the Elven rings alone.
In the last episode of the first season, Galadriel found out that Halbrand was Sauron...I don't understand why she didn't inform Gil Galad, Elrond and Celebrimbor, immediately. It doesn't make sense that she kept it a secret.
In the show, it is just to sow distrust among them. Drama is good for viewers' numbers.
Sidenotes
Galadriel never met Sauron in the original book. After Tolkien's death, his notes and letters were collected and published in "Unfinished Tales" by his son Christopher Tolkien. There it is mentioned that around S.A. 1350 in Eregion Sauron tried to deceive Galadriel, but she rejected him immediately. He then influenced Celebrimbor to expel her and she and Celebrían left for Lothlórien, where they stayed until S.A. 1701. Celeborn would return later to fight Sauron in the War of the Elves and Sauron (S.A. 1693 - S.A. 1701).
In the original book, it was Celebrimbor who discovered the evil of Sauron, when in S.A. 1600 Sauron forged the One Ring and tried to control all the other rings. Celebrimbor couldn't destroy the Elven rings, so he gave Nenya to Galadriel, Vilya to High King Gil-galad and Narya to Círdan.
Have you seen Ian McKellen making fun of the show?
thanks for all the insight that you provided. They are much appreciated!
I'm reading a fanfic that imagines what happened after Elrond jumped down the waterfall. He feels betrayed by both Galadriel and the High King because they didn't even for one second consider his belief that they were all better off if the (evil) rings were destroyed.
Elron says to himself that despite being Gil-Galad's Herold, his warnings were straight-out ignored. So he had no choice but to jump.
Reading more, the fan fic reveals how much Galadriel and Ereinion mean to Elrond. They are far more than just authority figures for him. (something that had not occurred to me)
He lost his parents at a tender age,
Then he lost Malgor and his brother Maedhros ( I know in the books there is very little about their time as "prisoners" but to me, it is highly probable they bonded ..isn't there a line in the books where it is said that love grew between them?? ),
Then he lost his brother who left to live his life as a man
So Elrond is alone and Galadriel and Ereinion have over the centuries become his "family". That's why he feels not only betrayed as the king's Harold but also as a family member.
PS.I know many are pissed off with how Amazon has re-written many events but I can't believe that they are not happy with the wondrous scenography, the rich and detailed costumes ...and with certain scenes like the ship going to Valinor.. the death of Celebrimbor which was powerful ( what I saw of it )
Reply by whocares911
on December 10, 2023 at 9:36 PM
A flash back to Ungoliant scaring Morgoth and the Balrogs having to come save him would be awesome.
Reply by sunshine62
on January 16, 2024 at 5:39 AM
Ciao wonder2wonder,
hope you are well, I'm looking forward to the Carnevale of Venice. ( 27 Jan - !3 Feb )
I have been reading and have collected more information on Gil Galad and Elrond , about their youth and on how their path crossed etc.
You replied:
It is not known why Gil-Galad never married. Perhaps he never found true love, or the war prevented him from marrying. Or Tolkien just wrote it that way, for Gil-galad to be a tragic figure and his lineage to end with him.
@. Gil Galad was 3576 years old when he died, I find it hard to believe he never found love ..also there were long periods of peace during his reign so I don't see he never married due to the wars.
Also, he was king, and usually, kings know the importance of producing an heir.
I have given it some more thought and the only conclusion that makes sense is that High King Gil Galad was gay and most probably he and Elrond were lovers
That would explain :
A. why he gave Vilya to Elrond.. who had become also his herald and
B. why Elrond married Celebrain only after the death of Gil Galad in SA 3441
Elrond met Celebrain in SA 1700… I read he fancied her but he only made his move and asked to marry her in TA 109. That's a 1850 year gap.
We know they had the twins and Arwen. So clearly, Elrond was active under the sheets which meant he was no monk.
So why the 1850 year gap ?.............................. the only logical answer is that he was already involved with someone else ( the High King Gil Galad)
Tolkien didn't mention it openly but one can read between the lines, right?
Reply by wonder2wonder
on January 16, 2024 at 2:04 PM
@sunshine62 Ciao. :relaxed;
Ah Carnival.
I always love to watch the parades and the people dancing in their colourful costumes to the rhythm of the high energy music. Too bad it is always in the winter. That means cold weather, snow or rain when you live in the Northern hemisphere. Fortunately there is enough alcohol to keep you warm. 
Elves are immortal, and even if they die, they can be reborn in Valinor. If one can live forever, one experiences the passing of time differently and a thousand years mean nothing. Durin was angry at Elrond, because he hadn't seen him in twenty years. Elrond didn't understand, because for him it would have felt like only a couple of months had passed at most.
So, for an elf, a hundred years would have passed just like that. Gil-galad's 3576 years sound like a lot for humans, who only live an average of a hundred years. Remember, as said, Elves are immortal and can live forever and be reborn if they die. How long is forever? It is difficult for a human to comprehend these numbers. A thousand years could be equal to ten years or ten days in the lake of eternity.
Gil-galad doesn't have to be in a hurry to have heirs. Perhaps he wanted to rule forever, and if he died, he would be reborn and could return. One of the reasons Elves don't have that many children is probably because of their innate resistance to change. They prefer that everything should be as it was, as it is should be as it was, forever and ever until the end of time, when they would fade away, content with the life they have lived. Marriage means change and so is having children. That doesn't mean they don't fall in love or marry, but it is something that is not expected from all Elves. In contrast, humans are mortal and need to procreate for the survival of the human species.
By the way, there was never real peace, until Sauron was defeated. Gil-galad could have preferred to spend all his time as a king to ruling and trying to find ways to fight Sauron.
Among humans, there are people who are so consumed by their work, that there is no time or place for anyone else, and even if they met someone, it wouldn't last, as duty would be chosen over personal needs. For Gil-galad a child, a heir would be fine, but could wait, when one is immortal and can rule forever if that is the choice.
Tolkien certainly didn't intend to write all his characters as being in a relationship, like if it was some kind of romance novel. In his later years he did intend to write more and expand on the life of some of his characters. Sadly, he never finished it, before his untimely death.
Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond and Narya to Cirdan before he went to fight the War of the Last Alliance. They were the two he trusted the most. Did he do this, because they were both his lovers in a love triangle?
Gil-galad died, but he would be reborn. Elrond knew this, so he could have waited for him, if they were lovers.
As already said, there was a war and no real peace until Sauron's ultimate defeat, and Elves usually don't marry during that time. Elrond was also a half-Elf - not pure blood - and still had much to prove. Celeborn was probably a very protective father and wouldn't let his daughter Celebrian marry anyone.
I'd rather think he waited to marry, until Sauron was defeated and Celeborn gave his consent when Elrond had proved to be a true Elf and in so doing earned the hand in marriage of Celebrian.
It is too easy to think in human terms. Those 1850 years do sound like a lot, but not for Elves. The war against Sauron was from SA 1693- SA 3441. After that, another hundred years would pass, a long time for humans, but for Elves it probably seemed like a year, as they recovered from the war, healing the wounded lands of Middle-Earth, and Elrond finally had time to court Celebrian, receive Celeborn and Galadriel blessing, and preparations would be made for this royal wedding.
If you assume that Elrond is gay, you could also speculate if his children or really his or from someone else. Should there be a paternity test?
Reply by Kurtzmansucks
on January 17, 2024 at 3:48 PM
They going to hire any writers with any talent and knowledges of Tolkien's universe this season or just wing it like last seasons disaster?
Reply by sunshine62
on January 18, 2024 at 9:56 AM
Ciao wonder2wonder
I enjoyed reading your post and appreciate the time you dedicate to me.
Yes, il Carnevale di Venezia is in winter, but it rarely snows there ...you get rainfall and it is cold but like you pointed out, there are ways to keep warm.
You made many points some I agree with others I do not.
You wrote:
Gil-galad doesn't have to be in a hurry to have heirs. Perhaps he wanted to rule forever, and if he died, he would be reborn and could return.
@.As far as I know, the only Elf that was reborn and returned to Arda was Glorfindel.
For example, Elves that die in battle go to the Halls of Mandos for some time and then are sent to Valinor.
And I don't see Gil Galad greedy for power.. after all, he gave his ring to Elrond. And he was wise and brave according to his trait chart.
Anyways, I can see your point that time is perceived differently by Elves.
But Gil Galad being king had responsibilities towards his people.
He is immortal but he can die .. and seeing good part of his life, he and the Elves
are at war with Sauron, I think it would be imperative that a king produce an heir.
Gil Galad was at the head of his troops and he was a target for the enemy. So the prospect of dying in battle was high.
One of the reasons Elves don't have that many children is probably because of their innate resistance to change
@. Yet Elrond married Celebrain in TA 109 and had the twins in the TA 130 and Arwen in the TA 241
He sure didn’t waste time and he had decided to be immortal unlike his brother Elros.
Gil-galad gave Vilya to Elrond and Narya to Cirdan before he went to fight the War of the Last Alliance. They were the two he trusted the most. Did he do this, because they were both his lovers in a love triangle?
@. Of course, he trusted Cirdan, he was a foster father to Gil Galad since he was a kid and their father/son relationship continued until Ereinion died.
Elrond was also a half-Elven - not pure blood - and still had much to prove. Celeborn was probably a very protective father and wouldn't let his daughter Celebrian marry anyone
@. Elrond was never just “ anyone” his lineage was noble to start with..... then on top of that Gil Galad thought highly of Elrond, and he made him his Herald. That means he was his most trusted advisor, diplomat, and ambassador.
He sent Elrond( not a general ) with troops to help Celebrimbor in Eregion when Sauron attacked in the SA 1695 . So he was Gil Galad's second in command in wartime.
In the SA 1697, with the few survivors, he retreated northward where he founded Imladris (1697 SA)
Gil Galad gave him Vilya and it’s more likely he saw Elrond as his heir. Elrond was I believe the next in line.
So I think Elrond had proved himself.
I'd rather think he waited to marry until Sauron was defeated and Celeborn gave his consent when Elrond had proved to be a true Elf and in so doing earned the hand in marriage of Celebrian
@. I admit, it’s plausible that Elrond might have wanted to wait because he too could have been killed in battle.
Furthermore, if Gil Galad considered Elrond his successor, he might have not felt it necessary to marry and produce an heir. Taking into account these two possibilities would debunk my conclusion that they were gay.
If you assume that Elrond is gay, you could also speculate if his children or really his or from someone else. Should there be a paternity test?
Gay men have had relationships with women and produced offspring so I don’t doubt they were his kids.
Reply by wonder2wonder
on January 18, 2024 at 7:16 PM
@sunshine62 Ciao.
I'll see if there are any videos or photos of il Carnevale di Venezia on internet.
I remember Lúthien, the Elf princess of the Sindar. She is from the tale of love between her and the Man Beren. He died after bringing back one of the Silmarils, and she passed away from a broken heart. Their spirits reunited in the Halls of Mandos, and they were reincarnated. Beren returned to Middle-Earth, and Lúthien accompanied him, giving up her immortality.
Galadriel's brother Finrod, who had sacrificed his life for Beren, was also reincarnated, but he decided to stay in Valinor with his father Finarfin and his beloved Amarië.
I agree that Gil-galad should have been looking for someone to have a child with, but it didn't seem to be a priority. Many Elves died during the war and it is ridiculous that the leaders also fought on the front line, with all the risk of dying.
The main characters are related in some way through their family connections. Who succeeds as the next king can be confusing, so I will try to explain.
There were three Elven tribes, and each had their Houses. The Noldor started with the House of Finwë, founded by Finwë, the first High King of the Noldor in Aman. He had three sons:
House of Fëanor: ruled by Fëanor, first son of Finwë and his first wife Míriel.
House of Fingolfin: ruled by Fingolfin. second son of Finwë and first son of his second wife Indis.
House of Finarfin: ruled by Finarfin, third son of Finwë and second son of his second wife Indis.
After Finwë was killed by Melkor (later known as Morgoth) in YT 1495, his first-born son Fëanor became the second High King of the Noldor. He was killed in YT 1497, and when his eldest son Maedhros relinquished his claim on the throne, the kinship was split between the two other sons of Finwë.
Finarfin stayed in Aman and became the third High King of the Noldor there. Fingolfin, who had left for Middle-Earth, became the first High King of the Noldor in Beleriand;
Fingon, the eldest son of Fingolfin, became the second High King. After he died, he was succeeded by his younger brother Turgon (second son of Fingolfin): the third High King.
Turgon only had one child. a daughter, Idril. Females didn't seem to have any rights to succession, so when Turgon died, the throne would be passed on to the next male in line.
Here it becomes interesting for who would become the fourth High King of the Noldor in Middle-Earth. Of course, we know that it would be Gil-galad.
But weren't there any other candidates?
Elrond's father Eärendil was the grandson of Turgon, of the House of Fingolfin, a direct descendant. But he was a half-Elf and too young.
Galadriel was the daughter of Finarfin and first cousin of Turgon, but she was a female.
The next suitable male in line was Gil-galad, the great-grandson of Finarfin. Turgon's grandfather Fingolfin was the older brother of Finarfin. So, Gil-galad and Turgon are distant cousins (twice removed).
As you see, everyone is related in some way.
Galadriel is the great aunt of Gil-galad, and the great-grand aunt of Elrond.
Gil-galad and Elrond are very distant cousins (three times removed). Gil-galad's great-grandfather Finarfin is the younger brother of Fingolfin, who is the great-great-grandfather of Elrond on his father's side.
One more thing. Guess who Elrond's great-grand parents are on his mother's side. When you find the answer, you will understand that some things I mention in my posts are not so random.
Of course, when Elves marry, they will have children, but it is finding someone who is their soulmate, which is difficult. Three children in 130 years isn't much as by the end of the Third Age the population in Middle-Earth had declined faster - e.g. due to wars - than the birthrate could keep up with, and as the Age of Men had began, what remained of the Elves departed for Valinor. Those who stayed would fade away or intermingle with the other races.
He certainly has, but who knows what Celeborn expected from Elrond. Maybe they all just wanted the war with Sauron to be over before getting married and starting a family. Galadriel and Celeborn also got married after Morgoth was defeated. Luckily that war only lasted about 590 years.
Reply by sunshine62
on March 30, 2024 at 5:38 AM
For me, the best interaction for now is between Elrond and Durin...There is one thing that bothers me though..I find it hard to imagine Elrond in armor.
Hugo Weaver looked looked the part , he was convincing as a warrior.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2zWv41OcOFs
Reply by sunshine62
on September 30, 2024 at 8:14 AM
I have been watching various reviews, that's second best to watching the series. I get to see several segments.
Most comments are negative but like I mentioned in the past, I have not read the books.
I do know for certain that Gil-Gilad did not fight at Eregion. He sent Elrond who was unable to save the city.
The High King did look cool in his gold and silver armour and with aeglos.
Elrond's kiss to Galadriel was a wtf moment.
I was wondering ..but in the books, Celebrimbor actually doesnt realise his city is under siege ? Was he under some sort of spell?
Theo's mother Bronwyn , did she get killed, no one mentions her.
The best moment for me was Gil Galad's haunting song.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8E4lkxu6aeE
I also found on YouTube Ian McKellen and other actors from The Lord of the Rings, who is making fun of the series..They are all entertaining but baby Elrond is super funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPFkepw_hlw
Reply by wonder2wonder
on September 30, 2024 at 2:39 PM
I had hoped that season 2 would explain the inconsistencies - like e.g. the three Elven rings forged first - but it seems to become worse with Gil-Galad, Galadriel and Elrond fighting over them (not in the books).
I've stopped asking myself how Amazon could spend 60-100 million dollars for a single episode. One season costs around $500 - $800 million, excluding the extras. I guess that when you are Amazon, you can adapt a book any way you like, and it doesn't matter how much it costs. There will always be an audience.
The writers of this television series have now made up so much that it is more fan fiction than Tolkien. Every time you try to explain something, the writers will have made up something else, and there are more questions.
If they ever wrote a new series about the Roman Empire, you would have storylines like for example, Julius Caesar and his threesome with Warrior Queen Cleopatra and Mark Antony, after they had spaghetti and meatballs, at Caligula's birthday party, while Nero was playing the guitar, and his mother was making a Baked Alaska Flambé.
Reply by sunshine62
on October 1, 2024 at 5:08 AM
by wonder2wonder.
If they ever wrote a new series about the Roman Empire, you would have storylines like for example, Julius Caesar and his threesome with Warrior Queen Cleopatra and Mark Antony, after they had spaghetti and meatballs, at Caligula's birthday party, while Nero was playing the guitar, and his mother was making a Baked Alaska Flambé
I see what you mean...... seeing an emotional Spock in Strange New Worlds, hook up with Chapel, pissed me off. All these unnecessary changes trash TOS.
Doesn't this site have emojis anymore?
I didn't know so much money was spent on this series. I don't understand why these mega-productions feel entitled to mess with the original source.
Didn't Annatar share much of his knowledge to help Celebimbor forge the rings? And only after Celebimbor had made the other rings, did he forge the three Elven rings in SECRECY because he didn't trust Annatar anymore.
In the last episode of the first season, Galadriel found out that Halbrand was Sauron...I don't understand why she didn't inform Gil Galad, Elrond and Celebrimbor, immediately. It doesn't make sense that she kept it a secret.
Have you seen Ian McKellen making fun of the show?
Reply by wonder2wonder
on October 1, 2024 at 9:30 AM
I don't know. Sometimes it works. I usually copy and paste or use a shortcode (e.g. : joy :).
Yes. In approximately S.A. 1500 Annatar taught the Elven smiths how to make the Rings. Then sixteen were created: seven rings for the Dwarf-kings and nine rings for Men. Shortly thereafter Annatar left Eregion for Mordor. About 90 years later in S.A. 1590 Celebrimbor forged the Elven rings alone.
In the show, it is just to sow distrust among them. Drama is good for viewers' numbers.
Sidenotes
Galadriel never met Sauron in the original book. After Tolkien's death, his notes and letters were collected and published in "Unfinished Tales" by his son Christopher Tolkien. There it is mentioned that around S.A. 1350 in Eregion Sauron tried to deceive Galadriel, but she rejected him immediately. He then influenced Celebrimbor to expel her and she and Celebrían left for Lothlórien, where they stayed until S.A. 1701. Celeborn would return later to fight Sauron in the War of the Elves and Sauron (S.A. 1693 - S.A. 1701).
In the original book, it was Celebrimbor who discovered the evil of Sauron, when in S.A. 1600 Sauron forged the One Ring and tried to control all the other rings. Celebrimbor couldn't destroy the Elven rings, so he gave Nenya to Galadriel, Vilya to High King Gil-galad and Narya to Círdan.
Yes. Funny.
Reply by sunshine62
on October 5, 2024 at 8:55 AM
Ciao wonder2wonder,
thanks for all the insight that you provided. They are much appreciated!
I'm reading a fanfic that imagines what happened after Elrond jumped down the waterfall. He feels betrayed by both Galadriel and the High King because they didn't even for one second consider his belief that they were all better off if the (evil) rings were destroyed.
Elron says to himself that despite being Gil-Galad's Herold, his warnings were straight-out ignored. So he had no choice but to jump.
Reading more, the fan fic reveals how much Galadriel and Ereinion mean to Elrond. They are far more than just authority figures for him. (something that had not occurred to me)
He lost his parents at a tender age,
Then he lost Malgor and his brother Maedhros ( I know in the books there is very little about their time as "prisoners" but to me, it is highly probable they bonded ..isn't there a line in the books where it is said that love grew between them?? ),
Then he lost his brother who left to live his life as a man
So Elrond is alone and Galadriel and Ereinion have over the centuries become his "family". That's why he feels not only betrayed as the king's Harold but also as a family member.
PS.I know many are pissed off with how Amazon has re-written many events but I can't believe that they are not happy with the wondrous scenography, the rich and detailed costumes ...and with certain scenes like the ship going to Valinor.. the death of Celebrimbor which was powerful ( what I saw of it )