@Invidia said:

And the STARBUCK debate also CONCLUDES with a LINK to a place where the ORIGINAL STARBUCK also CONFESES how WRONG he had been to OBJECT to the character he use to play being TURNED into a FEMALE.

I remember how Dirk Benedict reacted initially, and I expected him to 'change' his mind, willingly or not - never bite the hand that feeds you.

There are rumours of a reboot of "The A-Team" and there will be females now (not as bad as the all-female "Ghostbusters (2016)"?).

Who will be replaced?

How will he react if in the reboot of "The A-Team" his character Templeton "Faceman" Peck is now a female?
Has he learned his lesson and accept this from the get-go? Or will he speak against it and then later admit once again that he was wrong?

Sorry you misread the summary when the miniseries STARTS (around the time that Galactica was decommissioned and just prior to the assault of the Cylons on the Colonies)Adam a and Starbuck have known each other for 2 years in which time they have developed a close relationship because of the loss of Zack. BUT in the flashbacks in the miniseries and some in the first season we see that Adam FIRST MEETS STARBUCK AT ZACK'S FUNERAL where we see them meet for THE FIRST TIME and where Adama refers to letters from Zack writing about her and where Adama asks the question whether she and Zack were close which she confirmed.But Adama PRIOR TO ZACK'S FUNERAL HAS NEVER MET STARBUCK BEFORE AND MAYBE HAD SOME VAGUE SUSPICIONS ABOUT THEIR RELATIONSHIP(BECAUSE OF WHAT ZACK WROTE IN HIS LETTERS) BUT IT WASN'T CONFIRMED UNTIL ZACK'S FUNERAL . And Adama had always assumed that Zack got through Viper training because he passed the exam not because of Starbuck's pity because she and Zack were lovers where she let him pass even though he actually had failed the tests.So the core responsibility STILL LIES WITH STARBUCK you can't blame Adama,Apollo or the head of the training facility for having a responsibility in his death because that is ludicrous. Adama couldn't just start making accusations that his son and Starbuck should be separated because they are lovers based on suspicions.Whether Lee knew about his brother's relationship with Starbuck prior to Zack's death was never delved into so let's assume that he did know what could he have done about? And from what I got from the segments dealing with this subject matter the head of the viper school didn't know anything either and probably relied on the information of his flight instructor the be factual and unbiased.SO SHE LIED TO ADAMA ,LEE AND THE HEAD OF THE FLIGHT SCHOOL ABOUT THE REAL REASONS WHY ZACK DIED (BECAUSE HE WAS UNFIT AND BECAUSE OF THEIR RELATIONSHIP HER NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE AN UNBIASED DECISION THAT WOULD HAVE PREVENTED ZACK FROM BECOMING A VIPER PILOT AND GETTING KILLED IN THAT ACCIDENT).SHE ALSO LIED TO ZACK(WE SEE THIS IN A FLASHBACK SCENE WHERE WE MEET HER AND ZACK IN THE BARRACKS AFTER THE FINAL TEST WHERE SHE TOLD HIM EVEN WHEN SHE KNEW THIS TO BE UNTRUE THAT HE HAD BARELY MADE IT AND THAT HE HAS GOT HIS WINGS.THEREFORE SHE ALSO LIED TO THE HEAD OF THE FLIGHT SCHOOL OTHERWISE HE WOULDN'T HAVE PASSED ZACK.And she kept covering up her role in Zack's death about for the two years that follow until the moment when the series starts.And it is only after the destruction of the Colonies prior to a mission where the odds where bleak and where she suspected she might not return from that she comes clean about her role in Zack's death to Lee.Lee keeps this to himself when they do survive the attack because the matter is of such importance that she should tell Adama herself which she finally does in the episode with her "teaching "(abusing is a better word) the rookies which treats like pieces of shit from under her shoe.And YOU STILL THINK ADAMA"S REACTION WAS INVALID while I think she was very lucky Adama or Lee didn't kill her or at least have her discharged from service and never let her near a viper again.

This is al I have to say on the topic of Starbuck and before you can make assumptions about DISC you will first have to watch it like I do and you will find that most of the criticism is valid and I am not the only one .Check out the reviews on IMDB (which despite having a 7.4 rating (which to me seems like the figures are manipulated) shows probably the most 1 star out of ten ratings/reviews I have seen in a long time.And you wil see that most of the criticisms within these reviews describe similar issues.Where the general consensus is that DISC is just a random SF show with a Star Trek logo slapped upon it it.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/reviews?ref_=tt_urv

@Nexus71 said:

This is al I have to say on the topic of Starbuck and before you can make assumptions about DISC you will first have to watch it like I do and you will find that most of the criticism is valid and I am not the only one .Check out the reviews on IMDB (which despite having a 7.4 rating (which to me seems like the figures are manipulated) shows probably the most 1 star out of ten ratings/reviews I have seen in a long time.And you wil see that most of the criticisms within these reviews describe similar issues.Where the general consensus is that DISC is just a random SF show with a Star Trek logo slapped upon it it.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5171438/reviews?ref_=tt_urv

I don't think Discovery would be good even as a random SF show. Bears that can wander the universe just by wishing it, don't make sense in ANY framework. (Except maybe FAAAAANtasy.)

Just because I don't choose to waste time posting novels on little-read discussions, doesn't prove that my evaluations are random or pointless, or that your novel-length attacks are automatically superior.

There are very few critics these days whose opinion i respect,but the majority of movie critics nowadays lack the knowledge and understanding of good movie making (I have come across numerous errors in reviews which show they don't understand what good film making is or haven't seen the movie at all).After the reviews of The Dark knight (which was a decent comic book hero movie although I prefer Batman Begins)I take the opinion of these critics with a pinch of salt.Maybe you should watch Red Letter Media's reviews on Discovery and see Mr. Plinkett's review of The Last Jedi (Plinkett is the guy who got famous for minutely displaying why all three Star Wars prequels,in a 1,5 hour review for each movie, were bad movies from a movie making perspective )The guy who plays Plinkett (Mike Stoklaza,who is a huge Star Trek fan )actually went to film schools and he gives minute reasons provided with clear examples to illustrate this.)Also BBC Mark Kermode is a critic whose opinions I usually value(he is a huge fan of Blade Runner and made a TV special about BR for the BBC).

And a all female A-Team? Really and they think that people will go and see that? My prediction is that it will fail just like GB2016,The upcoming Terminator movie and Oceans 8 and when it fails the movie company will probably raise the gender card again,like they always do.And how does one write an all female A-Team a show specifically targeted at young boys ,with the writing skills that now is in Hollywood I can see how they go about it they change the male characters one on one with female characters making them "betterer" than the original characters.These movie big shots really don't have anything original to bring and why do they constantly feel the need to gentrify these franchises that for most of the times appeal to men?.Are these SJW's so vindictive that they can't allow men to have some their own franchises What's next? Martha McFly?,an all female cast Dirty Dozen?,Das Boot with an entire female crew?,Napoleon played by a woman?,Hitler being portrayed by a black female actress?

@Invidia said:

If you see BACKING UP what you have to say with EVIDENCE of what you've said …

(the way one has done by POSTING and DISCUSSING what takes place in that SCENE BETWEEN ADAMA and STARBUCK …

where she also PROVES that she's become MORE WISE than HE IS about what needs to be done) …

then WHY even bother POSTING anything here at all???

Because IF you can't BACK UP what you say with PROOF of what you say, then aren't you also WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME with what you say KNIX???

And if you also aren't willing to ADMIT IT when you make a MISTAKE (or are being an IRRATIONAL HARD ASS like ADAMA is being in that SCENE), doesn't that also already PROVE that what you say is WORTHLESS and MEANINGLESS???

Because whereas ADAMA was PREVIOUSLY right to RESIST being HOOKED UP to the COMPUTER SYSTEM, by the time we get to this point in the story he's no longer RIGHT to RESIST IT anymore.

Right KNIX???

Due to the way THINGS have CHANGED and EVOLVED to the point where SOME of the CYLONS have also become a PART of his CREW.

Remember the other SCENE where ATHENA also SAVES THEM by HOOKING up the DEFENSE SYSTEM into her ARM which enables them to DESTROY the CYLON SHIPS attacking them before they DESTORYED them???

What if ATHENA hadn't been with them in that scene???

GAME OVER.

HUMANITY goes EXTINCT.

I don't remember Athena doing that. I remember Boomer/Sharon doing that. Which is another mistake on your part.

But the main point isn't that humans would be extinct if that didn't happen. The main point is that the lead-up to that was ridiculous, and the idea that a cylon could interface with fiber-optic cable by sticking it in their arm, yet nothing unusual would show up on a body scan/x-ray-whatever, is more claptrap nonsense crap. As was "formatting the Galactica's hard drives" and the "firewall" and so much more. Only someone who knows very little about how computers work EVEN NOW, could fall for that. But you've never seemed to realize how much your screeds actually reveal about YOU.

And don't the KLINGONS on DIS also become CREW MEMBERS and a part of the FEDERATION like the CYLONS become a part of ADAMA's crew???

That goes further to making Discovery another cheap copy, doesn't it?

It's been a long time since I saw season 1, but I don't remember them finding any other "Boomers" at that point.

But at any rate, ALL of the Sharons/Boomers were Cylons/copies. So in that case for one, it doesn't seem to make any difference who each one was dating.

I also didn't find it the least bit credible that there could evidently be hundreds or even thousands EACH of the Cylon human copies, without ever being noticed that all these people were identical: photos, etc.

Maybe you all should read the following article (written by an woman) about what is wrong with Hollywood today ,and the continuous gender swapping of classic movies and of superheroes.Which in itself I have nothing against but I am against the manner Hollywood is currently doing it and why they can't write female characters that resonate with crowds(and not only the male part of that audience).And this is also the MAIN REASON WHY MOST OF THESE MOVIES AND SERIES FAIL ,NOT BECAUSE OF MALE MYSOGYNISM

Quote"At their best, these films and shows offer a kind of revisionist thinking. At their worst, they demonstrate the film and television industry’s cynical profiteering from contemporary feminist ideals"

Where movies like GB 2016,TLJ,Oceans 8 ,Discovery ,the all female Terminator ,and an all female A-Team fall under the latter category,worse the producers of these movies use the whole gender agenda as a means to silence valid criticism (even when that criticism was not related to the main character being female).

This article perfectly illustrates why I think why Hollywood can't write good female main characters and what is the inherent problem with the writing and mentality in Hollywood today.I stress again that I have nothing against female leads and even gender swapping particular roles isn't even a problem.AS LONG AS THE CHARACTERS ARE WRITTEN, WELL,ORIGINAL AND REALISTIC.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/female-reboot-movies-women-ghostbusters-oceans-8-superheroes-feminism-a8582426.html

Also if DISC is such a success why did the actor playing Pike in DISC accidently revealed that there were NO PLANS FOR A THIRD SEASON,I THINK THE STUDIO IS LYING ABOUT THE SUCCESS SINCE THE FIRST SEASON COST THEM NOTHING SINCE THE MAJORITY OF THE BUDGET WAS FINANCED BY NETFLIX WHILE GETTING ALL THE PROFITS WITH SEASON 2,THIS ALL HAS CHANGED AND CBS NOW HAS TO PAY FOR THE FULL BUDGET AND IS WHEN THEY STARTED TO NOTICE HOW MUCH THE SERIES REALLY COSTS and is when they did the maths and came to the conclusion that the series was not that much of a success now they have to pay for it.And what I think what CBS will do is cancel DISC at the end of this season in favor of a series featuring Picard which seems to appeal to far more people and Trek fans.

Those are all the kinds of things I have the first problems with. Sometimes I don't even notice or care how well an actor or actress portrays a role in what I consider a crap show or movie. Although as indicated before, it seemed to me that pretty much all the characters - especially the main ones - in the remake show were basically made psychotic by the writers/producers just because they thought that made the characters "deep" and "believable." What crap. And inexplicably so too, in most cases, especially such as Tigh who was a basket case even before the Cylon attack.

It also doesn't really matter to me if you say "well yes, it's a crappy remake, and the characters are ridiculously and inexplicably psychotic, etc, etc, but look how well Katee Sakhoff plays a ridiculously/inexplicably psychotic character!" Frankly I couldn't care less, even if I believed it was true. And it's certainly not because they made Starbuck female. My argument there is that the writers/producers didn't do that for any real good reason (IS THERE even one?) but because they thought it would attract more people for being "inclusive" even though it was just for selfish reasons.

It also doesn't really matter to me if you say "well yes, it's a crappy remake, and the characters are ridiculously and inexplicably psychotic, etc, etc, but look how well Katee Sakhoff plays a ridiculously/inexplicably psychotic character!" Frankly I couldn't care less, even if I believed it was true. And it's certainly not because they made Starbuck female. My argument there is that the writers/producers didn't do that for any real good reason (IS THERE even one?) but because they thought it would attract more people for being "inclusive" even though it was just for selfish reasons.

Fair points Knix (Pinch me I can't believe I am saying this ) So we all should like Starbuck of the reboot more despite her acting psychotic,abusive,full of herself,acting like a dick,disrespectful and unsympathetic because she had a rotten childhood ,and because of love made a bad decision? What kind of argument is that anyway ? Just because Adolf Hitler had a rotten childhood ,had spend much of his puberty and young adolescence in poverty ,was rejected from the Vienna arts college ,and got wounded during WW I multiple times makes him less of a monster,or because Kevin Spacey suffered from abuse and violence from an alcoholic father during his childhood makes his behaviour less abhorrent??

Seems like Tighe had hallucinations too. But mostly I just put "psychotic" above "neurotic" which I don't think adequately describes what they did to the characters. I'm not aware of any term that means "much worse than neurotic, like psychotic but without hallucinations" so psychotic will have to do.

And we've already seen examples of the selfishness of making Starbuck female. When criticized, the writers etc don't address the criticism, they just claim "sexism," which seems to be the same thing you do.

Invidia read the article and you'll see exactly what my criticism is and the reboot Starbuck is a good example of what the author is talking about with what is wrong in the manner "most"female characters are written.Also read my previous comments more carefully with the article in hindsight and you'll understand my position far better before arguing ad nauseam why you think the reboot Starbuck is better or more sympathetic than the Starbuck Knixon and I prefer.And since you can't persuade us to alter our opinions lets leave this discussion and let's agree to disagree

@Nexus71 said:

... let's agree to disagree

"I don't agree to that!" - Principle Skinner (I think), "The Simpsons."

She did a fine job in that scene but that was not the point we were discussing here And that still doesn't change my view about her as a character she was interesting and well written sure but that doesn't inherently should mean that we like her more,as a matter of fact Adama is also unsympathetic and as Knix has pointed pointed out that the reboot did turn everybody into psychotic assholes because that was edgy at the time .And I myself am far more disappointed how the show treated my favorite from the original Apollo who I particularly liked for his modesty and the reluctant hero Hatch made of him,the new Apollo here is turned into another obnoxious asshole.And this is the last thing I will say about the subject of BSG.