@Knixon said:

I'm sorry if your comprehension is limited to simple ideas like "See Spot Run." But since you've only recently been to college and it's not nearly as rigorous as it used to be, I'm not really surprised.

No you just don't make any sense or form cohesive ideas. Your responses are somewhere between off topic stream of consciousness and a collage of Newspaper Ramson notes.

Somehow you entered a thread on anthem protest and went on a tangent on criticism of Islam, criticism that could be made of members of ANY religious sect on the planet since practicing slavery was and is definitely not limited to Muslims. Then you tried to connect that to NFL players and the heritage they identify with, which isn't only irrelevant and ignorant , it simply makes no sense.

So we can come to the conclusion that once again you don't actually have anything of value to add to the thread. You just want to spew random evidence of crazy rapidly in all directions.

And if this is supposed to show me how " rigorous" your schooling was, I'm thinking you went to clown school on a full ride scholarship.

What else would a young kid think? It can't be YOUR lack, oh, certainly not. Obviously young people know WAY more than people who have not only had more education but also experienced much more of life. [holds up a "Sarcasm" sign]

@Knixon said: .. But for those who do (somehow) think stuff like football is important, it's important for that reason among others, and the solidarity should come first.

P.S. I tried to do a better job with the poem's layout but the auto-formatting "features" (I'd call them bugs) of this site made it impossible.

Solidarity is one issue, but whose solidarity ? Solidarity to the game itself ? Black solidarity ? Fan solidarity to their teams ? It is this clash between loyalty that is the issue ? Should the players be good little boys and play the game right ? Is it wrong to make white fans uncomfortable by bringing in black political issues when the anthem singing is political in itself ? I think that whatever politics the anthem routine brings evaporates as soon as it is done.Or is this just herd behavior on both sides? Is this just a symptom of the times when everyone and every issues seems to require some physical action or at least a colored rubber wristband ? One can't make one side feel something they don't believe. One side believes in visible if at least temporary patriotism while the other the other feels injustice and hypocrisy. They are not going to come together. These players are adults and should choose for themselves if they want to partake of this. As for Trump at least it had people forget about all of his North Korea fire talk. As for the teams, Trump wouldn't want anyone telling him how to run his companies and the team owners don't want him to tell them how to run theirs. Anthem standing isn't an NFL rule anyways.

By the way, Goshen College, a Mennonite college in Indiana, doesn't play the national anthem but America the Beautiful instead because of the schools pacifist roots.

More crap to ponder http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

It really comes down to this

Tradition - Fiddler on the Roof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

@censorshipsucks06 said:

Personally I think the players are mistaken because they picked one of the very few things that actually DO unite people in this country, and they chose that to focus their protest on that. *I think if they unveiled a banner and stood united on the field ASAP after the game is over, when the camera's are actually running (99% of the time they don't show the Anthem on TV) instead of acting like the Pharisees and getting in their "prayer circle", they'd get a much more meaningful point across to people. That would be powerful, and you'd likely get close to 100% participation by players and coaches. * These players need to think a little, and not follow a bad knee-jerk reaction by a has been like Collin Kaepernick.

Also, Nixon writes about "How many of those multimillionaires have opened a youth center in their home towns, versus how many have million-dollar chandeliers in their mansions?" How many of these players are working in the communities with their police departments to try and build a bridge? There are community outreach programs galore in most communities. Some of the players engage in those, but most are seeking what night clubs they can get to ASAP after the games and practices are over. Taking a knee during a song is easy. I'm looking for meaningful action on the topic. But this is just like when they wear pink in October to ostensibly 'Raise Awareness" for breast cancer. Seriously - who's NOT aware of breast cancer??? And the NFL makes money hand over fist selling 'pink everything', giving very little of it to cancer research.

I avoid buying anything with the pink ribbon specifically because of this.

@znexyish said:

@Knixon said: .. But for those who do (somehow) think stuff like football is important, it's important for that reason among others, and the solidarity should come first.

P.S. I tried to do a better job with the poem's layout but the auto-formatting "features" (I'd call them bugs) of this site made it impossible.

Solidarity is one issue, but whose solidarity ? Solidarity to the game itself ? Black solidarity ? Fan solidarity to their teams ? It is this clash between loyalty that is the issue ? Should the players be good little boys and play the game right ? Is it wrong to make white fans uncomfortable by bringing in black political issues when the anthem singing is political in itself ? I think that whatever politics the anthem routine brings evaporates as soon as it is done.Or is this just herd behavior on both sides? Is this just a symptom of the times when everyone and every issues seems to require some physical action or at least a colored rubber wristband ? One can't make one side feel something they don't believe. One side believes in visible if at least temporary patriotism while the other the other feels injustice and hypocrisy. They are not going to come together. These players are adults and should choose for themselves if they want to partake of this. As for Trump at least it had people forget about all of his North Korea fire talk. As for the teams, Trump wouldn't want anyone telling him how to run his companies and the team owners don't want him to tell them how to run theirs. Anthem standing isn't an NFL rule anyways.

By the way, Goshen College, a Mennonite college in Indiana, doesn't play the national anthem but America the Beautiful instead because of the schools pacifist roots.

More crap to ponder http://www.snopes.com/2016/08/29/star-spangled-banner-and-slavery/

It really comes down to this

Tradition - Fiddler on the Roof https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

To the extent the national anthem is political, it is - or at least should be - overall political to the whole country and all the people. If someone in America thinks the national anthem is somehow "against" them, their thinker isn't working very well. One could say that it might be "insulting" to someone who is visiting from another country, if we defeated them in a war or something. But at the Olympics for example, people from all countries routinely stand to honor the anthems of countries they may have never even heard of. I don't think it's too much to expect for American athletes to do the same within their country. Especially considering the opportunities they've had to earn millions of dollars.

@ArcticFox12 said:

I know this is extremely off topic but I'm interested in your opinions on this polarizing issue. A lot of professional athletes in this country have come under scrutiny for kneeling or taking a knee during the anthem to protest various perceived injustices.

Obviously President Trump put his two cents in and condemned it as "disrespectful". Problem is we don't how much of Trumps opinion is early campaigning /pandering, payback for the way the NFL shafted him when he tried to be an owner, or just outright misdirection to keep our focus off bigger issues. Some people hate it outright and some people invite the protest but detest the method and platform.

What do you guys think? Honestly I could give a **** if you spin around and dump a bucket of applesauce on your head during the anthem, it makes no difference to me what others do. I know I like to stand and cross my heart but if some even in a position of representing a franchise(pro athletes), want to protest that way, good on them.

That's a right the military is supposed to be fighting for. Instead a lot of people are wagging their finger "shame on you" thinking these athletes are disrespecting the military.

What do you think?

Since the beginning of time... kneeling - whether on both knees or taking a knee -- has always been a sign of respect... so why is it not now?

@tlm550 said:

@ArcticFox12 said:

I know this is extremely off topic but I'm interested in your opinions on this polarizing issue. A lot of professional athletes in this country have come under scrutiny for kneeling or taking a knee during the anthem to protest various perceived injustices.

Obviously President Trump put his two cents in and condemned it as "disrespectful". Problem is we don't how much of Trumps opinion is early campaigning /pandering, payback for the way the NFL shafted him when he tried to be an owner, or just outright misdirection to keep our focus off bigger issues. Some people hate it outright and some people invite the protest but detest the method and platform.

What do you guys think? Honestly I could give a **** if you spin around and dump a bucket of applesauce on your head during the anthem, it makes no difference to me what others do. I know I like to stand and cross my heart but if some even in a position of representing a franchise(pro athletes), want to protest that way, good on them.

That's a right the military is supposed to be fighting for. Instead a lot of people are wagging their finger "shame on you" thinking these athletes are disrespecting the military.

What do you think?

Since the beginning of time... kneeling - whether on both knees or taking a knee -- has always been a sign of respect... so why is it not now?

"Since the beginning of time"

You were there? If not how could you possibly know that?

Kneeling can mean whatever you want it to mean. Deference, praise, shame, it's not black and white. For this case, Kneeling during a National anthem is definitely not a sign of respect, the point was to garner attention and raise awareness by their own admission;whether the causes the athletes wanted attention for justify the kneeling, is debatable.

@tlm550 said:

@ArcticFox12 said:

I know this is extremely off topic but I'm interested in your opinions on this polarizing issue. A lot of professional athletes in this country have come under scrutiny for kneeling or taking a knee during the anthem to protest various perceived injustices.

Obviously President Trump put his two cents in and condemned it as "disrespectful". Problem is we don't how much of Trumps opinion is early campaigning /pandering, payback for the way the NFL shafted him when he tried to be an owner, or just outright misdirection to keep our focus off bigger issues. Some people hate it outright and some people invite the protest but detest the method and platform.

What do you guys think? Honestly I could give a **** if you spin around and dump a bucket of applesauce on your head during the anthem, it makes no difference to me what others do. I know I like to stand and cross my heart but if some even in a position of representing a franchise(pro athletes), want to protest that way, good on them.

That's a right the military is supposed to be fighting for. Instead a lot of people are wagging their finger "shame on you" thinking these athletes are disrespecting the military.

What do you think?

Since the beginning of time... kneeling - whether on both knees or taking a knee -- has always been a sign of respect... so why is it not now?

It's the when that makes the difference.

The US (and I'm guessing every nation/country/whatever) has rules regarding proper etiquette as to how to conduct oneself when it comes to the flag and the national anthem. It’s fed to us along with our pablum and reinforced thereafter with the fervor of a religious calling.

To deliberately do something other than and/or totally opposite those "rules" is where the disrespect comes in.

@FormerlyKnownAs said:

The US (and I'm guessing every nation/country/whatever) has rules regarding proper etiquette as to how to conduct oneself when it comes to the flag and the national anthem. It’s fed to us along with our pablum and reinforced thereafter with the fervor of a religious calling.

To deliberately do something other than and/or totally opposite those "rules" is where the disrespect comes in.

More on the flag than the anthem, but:

The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

• The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.
• The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
• The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard
• The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.
• The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
• The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
  

Seems like a lot of "patriotic" merchandise breaks those rules.

@M. LeMarchand said:

@FormerlyKnownAs said:

The US (and I'm guessing every nation/country/whatever) has rules regarding proper etiquette as to how to conduct oneself when it comes to the flag and the national anthem. It’s fed to us along with our pablum and reinforced thereafter with the fervor of a religious calling.

To deliberately do something other than and/or totally opposite those "rules" is where the disrespect comes in.

More on the flag than the anthem, but:

The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

• The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.
• The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
• The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard
• The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.
• The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
• The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
  

Seems like a lot of "patriotic" merchandise breaks those rules.

No argument there. And since the courts have ruled that it's their right (same applies to the Kneelers)--the only “reprimand” left is that which is dished out by the court-of-public-opinion.

And what the players DON'T have, is the "right" to be paid millions of dollars no matter what they do.

@CalabrianQueen said:

@tlm550 said:

@ArcticFox12 said:

I know this is extremely off topic but I'm interested in your opinions on this polarizing issue. A lot of professional athletes in this country have come under scrutiny for kneeling or taking a knee during the anthem to protest various perceived injustices.

Obviously President Trump put his two cents in and condemned it as "disrespectful". Problem is we don't how much of Trumps opinion is early campaigning /pandering, payback for the way the NFL shafted him when he tried to be an owner, or just outright misdirection to keep our focus off bigger issues. Some people hate it outright and some people invite the protest but detest the method and platform.

What do you guys think? Honestly I could give a **** if you spin around and dump a bucket of applesauce on your head during the anthem, it makes no difference to me what others do. I know I like to stand and cross my heart but if some even in a position of representing a franchise(pro athletes), want to protest that way, good on them.

That's a right the military is supposed to be fighting for. Instead a lot of people are wagging their finger "shame on you" thinking these athletes are disrespecting the military.

What do you think?

Since the beginning of time... kneeling - whether on both knees or taking a knee -- has always been a sign of respect... so why is it not now?

"Since the beginning of time"

You were there? If not how could you possibly know that?

Kneeling can mean whatever you want it to mean. Deference, praise, shame, it's not black and white. For this case, Kneeling during a National anthem is definitely not a sign of respect, the point was to garner attention and raise awareness by their own admission;whether the causes the athletes wanted attention for justify the kneeling, is debatable.

Yes, I've been here and everywhere since the beginning of time! :) No, obviously I haven't... it is just that all through history, kneeling has been a sign of deference and respect... What events in history has it meant disrespect?

I also think that everyone should stand and show respect. I have always asked though... why do so many workers in a stadium also ignore the flag. Every game, event, concert that I've attended where the anthem is played or performed, I've noticed many employees of the event completely gnoring it... (yes, they were in front of me, between me and the flag)...

And I've seen too many performers drape the flag over themselves and wear it like a cape.... hardly anyone complains about that, that is just as disrespectful.

@bratface said:

The NFL players have just as much right to peacefully protest as any other citizen.

Everyone has a right to protest - on their own time. If you continually protest AT WORK, your employer can fire you. I'm not saying that should or should not happen, but very often when people use this "I have rights" argument, they often overlook the rights of others, such as employers, whom employees represent during working hours. Whenever anyone brings up a First Amendment argument, I cringe, because they clearly don't have a working grasp of The Constitution and how it applies, and DOESN'T apply, to this particular situation.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances

@tlm550 said:

Since the beginning of time... kneeling - whether on both knees or taking a knee -- has always been a sign of respect... so why is it not now?

Two words: ** Established Protocol. **

And maybe you're supposed to kneel when you're right in front of the king or queen, for example. But you're supposed to STAND, not kneel, when they enter the room.

For example.