@Knixon said:

Why claim that I was using quotes "maliciously" (see what I did there? using quotes to point out something that someone else said or wrote?) when my point was that Roseanne was a worse wife than Ralph was a husband, for exactly that reason?

But by all means, let's hear why I did THAT "maliciously" too.

It must make life much easier, to read minds so well. Heck you don't need to read these boards at all, since you already know what everyone is thinking! . . . . . . . .

In fact though, the only thing you know is that you wouldn't have written it the same way, for whatever reasons you might think are important. And that's all.

I'm not going to argue with you , you can play dumb and claim you "didn't do nuffin" all you want . Anyone with any ability to to see intent behind words can see why you put those terms in quotations. You obviously aren't quoting any source for what you wrote, so it's clear you're using quotations to mock and trivialize the abuses mentioned as if women who claim those things happen are lying or exaggerating.

Don't insult our intelligence.

"Women are more likely to...."

Once you started that sentence I knew BS would soon follow, and it has more to do with your personal feelings than any analysis of a television show. Spare us the b sides of your misogyny repetoire.

@Gothish520 said:

From my perspective, the overall phrasing of the sentences, and putting those particular words in quotes, makes your statements come across as mocking, as if things like emotional and verbal abuse are not legitimate concerns. Just my opinion, but I don't think those words need to be emphasized in order for you to make your point. By putting those particular phrases in quotes, you are effectively saying that anyone who uses the terms to defend their position is being overly dramatic, and that emotional and psychological abuse aren't just as bad as physical abuse. At least, that is the way it came across to me, so apologies if I read too much into it. As for physical vs verbal/psychological abuse, it's all horrible, albeit in different ways. Do I want to get hit with a frying pan? No, of course not. But neither do I want to be mocked, ridiculed, manipulated, constantly told I'm worthless, etc etc. If I had to choose, I'd obviously pick the verbal, since with physical I am in danger of not surviving.

That was the point I just responded to: I was arguing that Roseanne was a worse wife to Dan, than Ralph Kramden was to Alice, BECAUSE OF EMOTIONAL/PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE! Where's the logic in claiming that I didn't really mean it, and I don't even take it seriously, because I used quotes?!?!? Sometimes internet people really need to take a step back. It's something like when police officers are trained that just because a foreign-born or -ancestry person doesn't look them in the eyes, doesn't somehow imply guilt like it might for a native-born Caucasian or whatever. Cops have to be taught that Foreign-born/-ancestry people often just fear the police because of how things are in their home countries, how they grew up, what their parents taught them, etc. (Although of course Erica sees right through all of that. GUILTY!!! GUILTY!!! GUILTY!!! Oops, I should have put THAT in quotes, since it came from Doonesbury. But then I apparently would have been proving that I didn't mean it...)

Another rather similar argument is sometimes used in cases of sports teams names that are supposed to be offensive: "Braves," etc. (Uh oh, there I go using quotes again! Will I never learn?) But who would name their sports team after something they despise, look down upon, etc? It's nonsense.

That being said, I don't think Ralph Kramden was actually verbally abusive - he was just a loud-mouthed, obnoxious blowhard. He clearly loved Alice, and she was strong enough to hold her own against his overbearing personality.

Yes, I'd agree with that, for Ralph. I think Roseanne was far more putting-down with her verbal and emotional abuse, which is also why I think she was a worse wife - and mother - than Ralph was a husband.

Just watched the frying pan scene on Youtube. The scene is funny, Dan totally rolls with it, but I agree that anyone hitting anyone else that hard with a cast iron frying pan is no bueno, unless one is trying to fend off an attacker. But as CQ points out, sitcom violence is not meant to reflect reality. The hope is that the audience, while watching and laughing, also has the good sense to realize that scenes like that should be taken with a "that's so WRONG" grain of salt.

Well yes, there is that too. But I was also pointing out that there really are people - Bill Maher is one - who talk a lot about how bad the 50s were and use "evidence" (uh oh, quotes again!) such as how Ralph Kramden was always "threatening his wife with physical violence" and supposedly in the 50s that was just fine because she was just his property or something; but never say a word about how Roseanne treated her spouse and children, including with actual physical violence which Ralph Kramden never did even once.

@CalabrianQueen said:

"Women are more likely to...."

Once you started that sentence I knew BS would soon follow, and it has more to do with your personal feelings than any analysis of a television show. Spare us the b sides of your misogyny repetoire.

It's not my fault if you don't know much yet. You are still young. But it doesn't take very long to find out the truth about such things, unless of course you already have your mind made up, or it was made up for you by some class in post-structural feminism or whatever.

Well when I was convinced that the old IMDB was gone, here it comes roaring back in a classic battle of the posts. There is really no sure way to put your intention in print here, with or without italics. Now I myself never watched Rosanne, found the whole thing unsavory. I wouldn't hang out with these people in real life and wouldn't watch them on tv either. I never watched "All in the Family" for the same reasons, particularly for that dreadful Meathead character. Now Ralph Kramdon was just a big fat loser living in the slums and he knew it. He had his tag line at the end of the show to be sure. He was all bark and no bite. Unlike Sheldon who tells everyone what to do or else. You know I never watched Will and Grace either. I think I will have to catch up now.

@znexyish said:

Well when I was convinced that the old IMDB was gone, here it comes roaring back in a classic battle of the posts. There is really no sure way to put your intention in print here, with or without italics. Now I myself never watched Rosanne, found the whole thing unsavory. I wouldn't hang out with these people in real life and wouldn't watch them on tv either. I never watched "All in the Family" for the same reasons, particularly for that dreadful Meathead character. Now Ralph Kramdon was just a big fat loser living in the slums and he knew it. He had his tag line at the end of the show to be sure. He was all bark and no bite. Unlike Sheldon who tells everyone what to do or else. You know I never watched Will and Grace either. I think I will have to catch up now.

There is one big rule when it comes to bad things . And that is: NEVER SAY THE BAD THING OUT LOUD . Speaking a bad thing may or may not do any harm, but in supernatural theory, speaking a bad thing gives it power and summons it to you.

Everyone knows that writing something is the same as saying it out loud.

Maybe someone who knows how to reverse the curse will come aboard and do so!

I am moderately interested in what these new episodes of "Roseanne" will look like. I'll probably wait until they're available for rent on disc at my local Family Video before I watch them, though. A few thoughts:

I always liked the original Becky as compared to Chalke, and hope they use the original actress exclusively. Nothing against Chalke, but I thought she never looked liked she fit in on a show that was supposed to represent the working class.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought at the end of the series Roseanne woke from a dream and only dreamed that Dan had died-- so Dan coming back in the new episodes is not a stretch (although I'll admit the whole dream thing-- used in other shows as well --could be considered a "cop out", lazy writing).

On Ralph Kramden-- a friend who was a bigger fan of "The Honeymooners" than I once pointed out to me that, despite all of Ralph's "to the moon!" bluster, no one doubted that if it ever came to blows, Alice would've kicked Ralph's ass.

On Carrie Heffernen-- I enjoyed King of Queens, but noticed that, for all of the verbal "ball-breaking" Carrie did to Doug, in the end, better than 50% of the time, she usually ended up doing whatever Doug wanted, usually after she replied with a loud "Fine!".

Back to Roseanne-- I thought the early seasons of that show were very good; a close depiction of white working-class life in a small Midwestern town (I know, I grew up in one). The show was even mentioned positively in a sociology textbook I read back in my college days.

There were memorable, very well-written scenes, as when Roseanne really gets her hopes up about a better-paying job, but then doesn't get hired because she lacks computer skills.

Or when Darlene comes home late from a concert, after Dan and Roseanne have a big fight about it. And then, in what today would be considered a very politically-incorrect scene (but nevertheless true-to-life, in my experience), Roseanne reads Darlene's friend (Molly?) the riot act for being an idiot.

I always liked the set-design of that show. The house looked dirty and lived-in; compare this to shows like "Modern Family", where everything always looks so CLEAN, even during raucous family get-togethers.

Just my random thoughts.

I think what they made into a dream, was the we-won-the-lottery thing. That was just Roseanne's mind covering up for Dan's death.

And in case you hadn't noticed, working-class families have some of the hottest daughters. What, you think only beautiful people make other beautiful people? Fine, explain Marilyn Munster! Anyway, they had Darlene to compensate for a hot Becky.

@Knixon said:

@CalabrianQueen said:

"Women are more likely to...."

Once you started that sentence I knew BS would soon follow, and it has more to do with your personal feelings than any analysis of a television show. Spare us the b sides of your misogyny repetoire.

It's not my fault if you don't know much yet. You are still young. But it doesn't take very long to find out the truth about such things, unless of course you already have your mind made up, or it was made up for you by some class in post-structural feminism or whatever.

Yup, you old folks always fall back on the same crutch when you can't make a logical point.Collecting social security checks doesn't make you an expert on a damned thing.

You're a broken record really and it's only a matter of time before the people here get sick of you too. 😏

@FormerlyKnownAs said:

@znexyish said:

Well when I was convinced that the old IMDB was gone, here it comes roaring back in a classic battle of the posts. There is really no sure way to put your intention in print here, with or without italics. Now I myself never watched Rosanne, found the whole thing unsavory. I wouldn't hang out with these people in real life and wouldn't watch them on tv either. I never watched "All in the Family" for the same reasons, particularly for that dreadful Meathead character. Now Ralph Kramdon was just a big fat loser living in the slums and he knew it. He had his tag line at the end of the show to be sure. He was all bark and no bite. Unlike Sheldon who tells everyone what to do or else. You know I never watched Will and Grace either. I think I will have to catch up now.

There is one big rule when it comes to bad things . And that is: NEVER SAY THE BAD THING OUT LOUD . Speaking a bad thing may or may not do any harm, but in supernatural theory, speaking a bad thing gives it power and summons it to you.

Everyone knows that writing something is the same as saying it out loud.

Maybe someone who knows how to reverse the curse will come aboard and do so!

Actually, I'm quite enjoying this - it feels like old times! As long as we can keep things at a certain level and not devolve into the unfortunate and unsavory name-calling that used to occur with alarming regularity on the old board, then I'm all for it. As controversial as the posters who have made the leap to this board can be, I don't think any here have ever sunk so low as to spew true nastiness. We're a tough group, we can handle some verbal sparring.

@znexyish said:

Well when I was convinced that the old IMDB was gone, here it comes roaring back in a classic battle of the posts. There is really no sure way to put your intention in print here, with or without italics. Now I myself never watched Rosanne, found the whole thing unsavory. I wouldn't hang out with these people in real life and wouldn't watch them on tv either. I never watched "All in the Family" for the same reasons, particularly for that dreadful Meathead character. Now Ralph Kramdon was just a big fat loser living in the slums and he knew it. He had his tag line at the end of the show to be sure. He was all bark and no bite. Unlike Sheldon who tells everyone what to do or else. You know I never watched Will and Grace either. I think I will have to catch up now.

I loved Roseanne the first couple of seasons. Roseanne Barr's stand-up was something different at the time - the whole "Domestic Goddess" schtick was refreshing, and the show's portrayal of a lower-middle-class family in such a raw way was new and mostly hilarious. A lot of stuff rang true for many women, and it was great to see a tough, no-nonsense female character giving as good as she got, and then some. The fact that she was not a thin, put-together "little woman" type, or a sweet, all-knowing supermom character was what made her, and the show, so fresh and different. Sustaining that type of unconventional humor over the long haul is often impossible though. But what eventually drove me away was the unlikability of Darlene and Becky. Those two became obnoxious and intolerable. Nothing more annoying on a tv show than ungrateful, bratty kids who turn into ungrateful, nasty teenagers.

To me, everyone on All in the Family was annoying in their own way - my least favorite character was Edith. Good lord she was dumb, and that voice! I remember liking the show to a certain extent at the time, but now I would not watch it unless it was one of two favorite scenes:

cola taste test https://youtu.be/2nIgSwlk3Hc Socks and shoes https://youtu.be/prRtcQz8Uqk

Both still crack me up to this day - I think of the sock scene often when getting dressed The cola scene goes on to Gloria eating the lima bean, thinking she was allergic but of course nothing happens. But her reaction when eating it is priceless!

Will and Grace was one of my favorite shows until that abysmal series finale.

@FormerlyKnownAs said:

Supposedly the original cast is set to return for an 8-episode run. (I say supposedly because this 'chestnut' has been making the rounds for a few.)

Anyway:

If/When it returns is anyone expecting to see Galecki? Somehow, can’t see CBS allowing a Lead from its top-rated sitcom spending quality time boosting a sitcom on another network—not to mention the (alleged) no-love-loss unrelationship between Chucky and Rosey).

While the new show, if/when it returns, is not on my list of things to do; I would be much more likely to check it out with Galecki in it.

What say you?

---

Considering how well Goodman and Metcalf have done post-Roseanne, they must be making them offers-they-can’t-refuse to get them give it another go.

Looks like they will just ignore Dan's death. DALLAS did this when they re-started the show on TNT a few years back, and simply ignored all the Made For TV DALLAS movies that had aired, and picked up from the point of the last episode - +20 some years.

As for Galecki, ABC is trying to work something out for some sort of appearance, but it's highly unlikely he'll be a regular cast member for every episode. As we all know, he's committed to TBBT, and he's also Exec Producing another show for CBS. There's only so many hours in a day.

@FormerlyKnownAs said:

@znexyish said:

Well when I was convinced that the old IMDB was gone, here it comes roaring back in a classic battle of the posts. There is really no sure way to put your intention in print here, with or without italics. Now I myself never watched Rosanne, found the whole thing unsavory. I wouldn't hang out with these people in real life and wouldn't watch them on tv either. I never watched "All in the Family" for the same reasons, particularly for that dreadful Meathead character. Now Ralph Kramdon was just a big fat loser living in the slums and he knew it. He had his tag line at the end of the show to be sure. He was all bark and no bite. Unlike Sheldon who tells everyone what to do or else. You know I never watched Will and Grace either. I think I will have to catch up now.

There is one big rule when it comes to bad things . And that is: NEVER SAY THE BAD THING OUT LOUD . Speaking a bad thing may or may not do any harm, but in supernatural theory, speaking a bad thing gives it power and summons it to you.

Everyone knows that writing something is the same as saying it out loud.

Maybe someone who knows how to reverse the curse will come aboard and do so!

Well Formerly, then we will have to just borrow Raj's handcrafted Harry Potter Wand / Harry Potter Stick and say in our best Bernie voice "Bippity Boppity Boo" And if that doesn't work we could try Howard's remote control wand or the sheriffs badge with telescoping wand from the Wild West and Witches expansion pack. If all that fails to reign in the troubles then I don't know what else to do.

@znexyish said:

@FormerlyKnownAs said:

@znexyish said:

Well when I was convinced that the old IMDB was gone, here it comes roaring back in a classic battle of the posts. There is really no sure way to put your intention in print here, with or without italics. Now I myself never watched Rosanne, found the whole thing unsavory. I wouldn't hang out with these people in real life and wouldn't watch them on tv either. I never watched "All in the Family" for the same reasons, particularly for that dreadful Meathead character. Now Ralph Kramdon was just a big fat loser living in the slums and he knew it. He had his tag line at the end of the show to be sure. He was all bark and no bite. Unlike Sheldon who tells everyone what to do or else. You know I never watched Will and Grace either. I think I will have to catch up now.

There is one big rule when it comes to bad things . And that is: NEVER SAY THE BAD THING OUT LOUD . Speaking a bad thing may or may not do any harm, but in supernatural theory, speaking a bad thing gives it power and summons it to you.

Everyone knows that writing something is the same as saying it out loud.

Maybe someone who knows how to reverse the curse will come aboard and do so!

Well Formerly, then we will have to just borrow Raj's handcrafted Harry Potter Wand / Harry Potter Stick and say in our best Bernie voice "Bippity Boppity Boo" And if that doesn't work we could try Howard's remote control wand or the sheriffs badge with telescoping wand from the Wild West and Witches expansion pack. If all that fails to reign in the troubles then I don't know what else to do.

Great suggestions; but, maybe no intervention is required (at this time). Could be that I was a tad premature in applying the "bad" label and calling for an exorcist.

So, I’m going to go with NFAR--unless/until the metal in my braces starts to melt the next time I read a one.

@Gothish520 said:

I loved Roseanne the first couple of seasons. Roseanne Barr's stand-up was something different at the time - the whole "Domestic Goddess" schtick was refreshing, and the show's portrayal of a lower-middle-class family in such a raw way was new and mostly hilarious. A lot of stuff rang true for many women, and it was great to see a tough, no-nonsense female character giving as good as she got, and then some. The fact that she was not a thin, put-together "little woman" type, or a sweet, all-knowing supermom character was what made her, and the show, so fresh and different. Sustaining that type of unconventional humor over the long haul is often impossible though. But what eventually drove me away was the unlikability of Darlene and Becky. Those two became obnoxious and intolerable. Nothing more annoying on a tv show than ungrateful, bratty kids who turn into ungrateful, nasty teenagers.

I don't know if I ever saw a complete episode of Roseanne, it was probably something I sometimes caught bits of because it was on right before or maybe right after, some other show I was following. I mostly remember some good stuff where they try to scare each other around Halloween, and of course Sarah Chalke was gorgeous.

@censorshipsucks06 said:

Looks like they will just ignore Dan's death. DALLAS did this when they re-started the show on TNT a few years back, and simply ignored all the Made For TV DALLAS movies that had aired, and picked up from the point of the last episode - +20 some years.

Who on Dallas died only at/just before the end, that was brought back for the new series? I wasn't a regular watcher, but the only one I remember dying was Bobby, and the whole "Pam was just dreaming" thing was done well before the series ended. (Although spin-off "Knott's Landing" continued with Bobby being dead.)

@Knixon said:

@Gothish520 said:

I loved Roseanne the first couple of seasons. Roseanne Barr's stand-up was something different at the time - the whole "Domestic Goddess" schtick was refreshing, and the show's portrayal of a lower-middle-class family in such a raw way was new and mostly hilarious. A lot of stuff rang true for many women, and it was great to see a tough, no-nonsense female character giving as good as she got, and then some. The fact that she was not a thin, put-together "little woman" type, or a sweet, all-knowing supermom character was what made her, and the show, so fresh and different. Sustaining that type of unconventional humor over the long haul is often impossible though. But what eventually drove me away was the unlikability of Darlene and Becky. Those two became obnoxious and intolerable. Nothing more annoying on a tv show than ungrateful, bratty kids who turn into ungrateful, nasty teenagers.

I don't know if I ever saw a complete episode of Roseanne, it was probably something I sometimes caught bits of because it was on right before or maybe right after, some other show I was following. I mostly remember some good stuff where they try to scare each other around Halloween, and of course Sarah Chalke was gorgeous.

Sarah Chalke was (and still is) gorgeous, and in fact I liked her portrayal of Becky better than Lecy Goranson's. Lecy had this snotty look on her face and tone in her voice that just irked me, lol.