@Oldnewbie said:

Jadis\Ann is in league with what? A Negan type group that happen to have a helicopter?? Sounds like it. And trading people?? For what? Medical experiments?? Why would she still need supplies if her community is gone?? They threaten to bomb from above?? Daryl could take out the copter with one bolt!

This is jumping the shark type writing, for sure.

@jonnieblack said:

@Oldnewbie said:

Jadis\Ann is in league with what? A Negan type group that happen to have a helicopter?? Sounds like it. And trading people?? For what? Medical experiments?? Why would she still need supplies if her community is gone?? They threaten to bomb from above?? Daryl could take out the copter with one bolt!

This is jumping the shark type writing, for sure.

As in a crazy unlikely way to set up a new problem just as one problem seems to be moving on? The Whisperers are coming , Rick is leaving, Maggie is leaving, so I don't know why they have to make another issue. But they set this up last year, so to ignore the helicopter and her connection to it would be remiss. Obviously we had to assume the copter was from a place with greater resources than anyone, more than likely a government facility that knew the dead event was coming or was in readiness to activate in the event of a nuclear strike. The A people B people thing could be a plan to separate the "wheat from the chafe" of what is left of humanity and get them to the facility to rebuild civilization. Jadis is probably, no, more than likely not their only operative. So they may not be necessarily bad people, just Jadis' way of doing things is extreme.

And if indeed it is a fed facility, there are probably more. Maybe some in other countries. We have been in Nuke preparedness for over 50+ years so it makes sense to think the nations, the world power nations, are at the ready for any sort of catastrophic event.

@Oldnewbie said:

@jonnieblack said:

@Oldnewbie said:

Jadis\Ann is in league with what? A Negan type group that happen to have a helicopter?? Sounds like it. And trading people?? For what? Medical experiments?? Why would she still need supplies if her community is gone?? They threaten to bomb from above?? Daryl could take out the copter with one bolt!

This is jumping the shark type writing, for sure.

As in a crazy unlikely way to set up a new problem just as one problem seems to be moving on? The Whisperers are coming , Rick is leaving, Maggie is leaving, so I don't know why they have to make another issue. But they set this up last year, so to ignore the helicopter and her connection to it would be remiss. Obviously we had to assume the copter was from a place with greater resources than anyone, more than likely a government facility that knew the dead event was coming or was in readiness to activate in the event of a nuclear strike. The A people B people thing could be a plan to separate the "wheat from the chafe" of what is left of humanity and get them to the facility to rebuild civilization. Jadis is probably, no, more than likely not their only operative. So they may not be necessarily bad people, just Jadis' way of doing things is extreme.

And if indeed it is a fed facility, there are probably more. Maybe some in other countries. We have been in Nuke preparedness for over 50+ years so it makes sense to think the nations, the world power nations, are at the ready for any sort of catastrophic event.

Jadis is most likely working with the Whisperers, we haven't seen the last of her, she most likely ran off to join their group. They are just trying to wrap up the Rick and Maggie storylines before they fully introduce them, the A and B is most likely a reference to Alpha and Beta, which is feature of that group.

Well this past ep solved the Jadis issue. She's gone! Probably the helicopter sub story too. Rick will somehow escape certain death cause the plot synopsis for next ep features him. Unless it's a Jacob's Ladder story with his dying eyes seeing what could have been...

The Whisperers from the story in the comics are extreme survivors who make "meat suits" out of walker skin and guts and travel among them! So they truly have come to stand the stench of the dead to move freely about. Apparently they are legion and are lead by a female Negan named Alpha. Thus they are another bunch of nutcases lead by a nutcase. Maybe Negan will be helpful in defeating them as he knows how they think??

"Wearing meat suits" - why is that novel? Rick and Glenn did that in the very beginning. Didn't Michonne effect that by chain-ganging two walkers way back? I also seem to recall Carol doing it (was that to help overthrow Terminus?)

If Rick's group (or any group for that matter) kept up with this tactic, they'd never get attacked by walkers and one of the primary (and very lame) devices of this entire show - you know, when a walker surprises main characters by entering the frame suddenly from the side even though the main characters should easily have SEEN them in their peripheral vision; HEARD them ambling and growling; and SMELLED them coming - would have been removed.

Now it's the main feature for an entire group? Oy.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

"Wearing meat suits" - why is that novel? Rick and Glenn did that in the very beginning. Didn't Michonne effect that by chain-ganging two walkers way back? I also seem to recall Carol doing it (was that to help overthrow Terminus?)

If Rick's group (or any group for that matter) kept up with this tactic, they'd never get attacked by walkers and one of the primary (and very lame) devices of this entire show - you know, when a walker surprises main characters by entering the frame suddenly from the side even though the main characters should easily have SEEN them in their peripheral vision; HEARD them ambling and growling; and SMELLED them coming - would have been removed.

Now it's the main feature for an entire group? Oy.

I did not say it was novel. And you are right. That is an old complaint about the show. The living characters know how to throw off the walkers by covering themselves in dead guts. But they hardly ever employ the technique. It ought to be standard mission prep before scavenging, etc.

As far as not smelling the dead when they show up. It could be deadened senses to the odor or that everywhere now smells of death.

If there is anything unique about the Whisperers is that they are sewing together suits of dead people. BUT that goes back to real life ghoul Ed Gein who raided a local cemetery for skin, etc; finally killing a couple people for it.

@Oldnewbie said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

"Wearing meat suits" - why is that novel? Rick and Glenn did that in the very beginning. Didn't Michonne effect that by chain-ganging two walkers way back? I also seem to recall Carol doing it (was that to help overthrow Terminus?)

If Rick's group (or any group for that matter) kept up with this tactic, they'd never get attacked by walkers and one of the primary (and very lame) devices of this entire show - you know, when a walker surprises main characters by entering the frame suddenly from the side even though the main characters should easily have SEEN them in their peripheral vision; HEARD them ambling and growling; and SMELLED them coming - would have been removed.

Now it's the main feature for an entire group? Oy.

I did not say it was novel. And you are right. That is an old complaint about the show. The living characters know how to throw off the walkers by covering themselves in dead guts. But they hardly ever employ the technique. It ought to be standard mission prep before scavenging, etc.

I did not mean to imply that you said it was novel. I was more taking a shot at the writers about this oft-revisited TWD plot hole.

As far as not smelling the dead when they show up. It could be deadened senses to the odor or that everywhere now smells of death.

Perhaps.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Oldnewbie said:

I did not say it was novel. And you are right. That is an old complaint about the show. The living characters know how to throw off the walkers by covering themselves in dead guts. But they hardly ever employ the technique. It ought to be standard mission prep before scavenging, etc.

Would you really want to walk around covered in walker guts all the time? Besides, we know from Gabriel's illness that there is danger to that tactic.

@jonnieblack said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Oldnewbie said:

I did not say it was novel. And you are right. That is an old complaint about the show. The living characters know how to throw off the walkers by covering themselves in dead guts. But they hardly ever employ the technique. It ought to be standard mission prep before scavenging, etc.

Would you really want to walk around covered in walker guts all the time? Besides, we know from Gabriel's illness that there is danger to that tactic.

Kinda. Neither Carol nor Rick nor (to his death) Glenn exhibited any of those ill effects. Nevertheless, going along with your point, yet here the writer are with the Whisperers using this tactic that is of questionable long term viability.

And again, I say, oy!

The Whisperers do more than cover themselves with guts, they wear the skins of a walker.

@lennonforever said:

The Whisperers do more than cover themselves with guts, they wear the skins of a walker.

Yes I mentioned they sew together suits from the dead, ala Ed Gein.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@jonnieblack said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Oldnewbie said:

I did not say it was novel. And you are right. That is an old complaint about the show. The living characters know how to throw off the walkers by covering themselves in dead guts. But they hardly ever employ the technique. It ought to be standard mission prep before scavenging, etc.

Would you really want to walk around covered in walker guts all the time? Besides, we know from Gabriel's illness that there is danger to that tactic.

Kinda. Neither Carol nor Rick nor (to his death) Glenn exhibited any of those ill effects. Nevertheless, going along with your point, yet here the writer are with the Whisperers using this tactic that is of questionable long term viability.

And again, I say, oy!

To be fair, the Whisperers are in the novels at about this point. I agree though, feels really rehashed. Another group of crazies and another war to fight. Only this time, without Rick.

@jonnieblack said:

To be fair, the Whisperers are in the novels at about this point. I agree though, feels really rehashed. Another group of crazies and another war to fight. Only this time, without Rick.

The show has revolved around cycles, but the earlier cycles were diverse. Figure things out, coalesce into a group, develop trust, getting out of Atlanta; getting to CDC, getting out of CDC; the farm...

Since the farm, the cycles have been essentially all about wars: prison/Woodbury; Terminus; Alexandria/Wolves/Saviors/Scavengers... each one indeed weirder than the previous...but this war basis has gotten rather boring, IMO, far less complex and, given the circumstances, rather stupid - it would seem that, at this stage in the apocalypse, people would have come to agree that peace, stability and cooperation are better than war, and actually be happy to enjoy a semblance of normalcy amongst like-minded individuals.

What's more, that, rather than fighting among the fellow living, they might try to get a sense of scope for how many walkers there may be out there; a better strategy for expanding their community perimeters; and some thought, again, to what happened, where it's going, and whether they can establish communication with an ever-widening circle of communities.

And, given this story is determined to remain set in the United States only, the question is, of the ~400 million people the country had before the apocalypse, how many are still living, how many are dead, and how many are walkers?

The show has done a crappy job of showing the characters trying to get a wider view of the larger landscape - everything has been within their eyesight, which is not very far. Yes, they've moved from Atlanta to DC area...yet, they've never dealt with winter and whether that might have provided an advantage (do walker muscles freeze? do wintry, slippery conditions eliminate their ability to sneak up on anyone?) or a disadvantage (enough food, shelter, warmth).

All in all, yes, I certainly agree, rehashing the war cycle rather than moving on to more ambitious mini-arcs is disappointing.

Good points. It is easier to rehash than to be inventive. This ties back to the years long debate about lazy writing. And tight budgets.

We'll see lots of new secondary characters after Rick and Maggie exit as it will free up payroll money! It'll help pay for the Whisperers and their leader who is played by Samantha Morton.

As I recall from a very quick shot from last seasons finale, Rick and gang en route to confront Negan saw a massive horde of walkers in the distance. Rick I believe said "They are getting closer", but nothing more was said or added to the issue

As for the true bigger picture; there is no communication network so what is going on in other parts of the country, let alone the world, would not be possible to communicate. Nor would a comprehensive study be able to be done My guess is things suck everywhere..

Oh and Gimple did say plans were in the works for a series or mini-series set in other countries. Chances are they will be rehashes of TWD, like "Fear" is.

I kinda like the idea of Daryl/Carol taking over from Rick; and Michonne/Jesus taking over from Maggie.

I mean, I'd miss Rick and Maggie, but if they are moving on, so be it. Godspeed to them both.

Maggie's had her baby Herschel. Michonne is raising Judith and appears to be pregnant herself, so she's poised to become the overarching mother figure while Daryl and Carol kick ass and run things. Jesus can be the zen moral compass voice of reason.

As for Exekiel? Whatever his role, just with less talking!