My problem with the finale was just how predictable every single development was. It did not used to be that way. At least the second hour, Morgan's story, had some degree of suspense.

@Nubyan said:

@Daddie0

Oh, by the way. Rick was not going to kill Negan for Carl's death. He had been attempting to kill Negan long before that. Not sure why you think that.

I think it is fair to say, Rick was not going to kill Negan only for Carl's death, but if we are watching the same show, the whole drama of Carl dying was that somehow Rick blamed Negan (misplaced as that blame was) and the tension in all this build up was between Rick's desire to see him dead--amplified by Carl's death--and Carl's plea to everyone that they just stop killing each other. No matter the logic, the most powerful moment in this mess for me was Maggie's response to Rick not killing Negan. The brief moment when Rick struck Negan was the only relief (and surprise) in the episode, only to pan back and see Negan gasping. Whether this is consistent with the comics or not, the whole "keep the bad guy alive" trope is worn out, and the show would have been just as powerful to have truly killed him off.

BTW, I'm sure these opposing views, and the tension it creates, is exactly what the writers were hoping for. Sadly for me it just affirms more cliche writing to come.

@jonnieblack said:

My problem with the finale was just how predictable every single development was. It did not used to be that way. At least the second hour, Morgan's story, had some degree of suspense.

For me, Eugene's arc was fairly well played, if not--as you say--predictable. I was genuinely surprised when the guns started exploding, as they had done a pretty good job of setting up Eugene's attitude. Playing it in reverse, it's hard to actually see his thought process that gets him there, but that could just be me.

Come on Daddie0! You can't say one minute that Rick wanted to kill Negan because of Carl's death and then walk that statement back.

I want to watch it again just to examine the scene with Maggie, Jesus, and Daryl. To see exactly what was said. The treat to Rick and Michonne was there but no action was stated, as I recall. So anything could be their retribution.

@Nubyan said:

Come on Daddie0! You can't say one minute that Rick wanted to kill Negan because of Carl's death and then walk that statement back.

I don't feel like I'm walking anything back. My whole issue--on which we apparently disagree--is that Rick's decision not to kill Negan was a deep betrayal of Maggie's loss.

@Daddie0 said:

I don't feel like I'm walking anything back. My whole issue--on which we apparently disagree--is that Rick's decision not to kill Negan was a deep betrayal of Maggie's loss.

You call it betrayal, I call it a change of heart. Still, I do think that you're walking back your statement. But, I'm willing to move on from that.

I will agree with what you said about Eugene's arc. It was well written and well played. I had been holding on to hope that he was still very much a part of Rick and Co. But then he would do or say something to make me believe that we've truly lost Eugene. Even during the final episode when father Gabriel jumped out of the car and Eugene caught up with him. I was convinced...he's past the point of no return regarding his allegiance. But surprise, surprise. He did what was right and was meant to be done by him and only him.

Answer me this...if you can. Do you remember if Carl left a letter for Maggie? I can't remember. I know he left one for Daryl. If he did, perhaps the receipt of that letter may change the course of her plans.

@Nubyan said:

Answer me this...if you can. Do you remember if Carl left a letter for Maggie? I can't remember. I know he left one for Daryl. If he did, perhaps the receipt of that letter may change the course of her plans.

There is a stack of letters, but I don't recall seeing Maggie's name on any of them. It will be interesting to see if any more letters pop up, and I agree that one to Maggie could make a huge difference. We'll see!

@Daddie0 said:

Meh. Just don't (re)read them?

I actually don't either. I suggest it because it saves time with not having to scroll through pages of wasted space.

No I did not see one addressed to Maggie, which would be odd since he wrote one to pretty much everyone he's known, including Enid. So maybe there is one to her that she'll read "in the nick of time" and stop her plan, whatever it is.

I feel like it was 100% a betrayal on Ricks part...he prevented Maggie from getting the revenge that she's been waiting for and what's (in part) driven her to continue to lead and fight for Hilltop. He could have taken an attitude like Tara did when Darryl still wanted to kill Dwight ...“You do what you gotta do but I won't be part of it..”. He could have honored Korl's wishes by allowing Negan to live and walking away...

@mountaingirl said:

I feel like it was 100% a betrayal on Ricks part...he prevented Maggie from getting the revenge that she's been waiting for and what's (in part) driven her to continue to lead and fight for Hilltop. He could have taken an attitude like Tara did when Darryl still wanted to kill Dwight ...“You do what you gotta do but I won't be part of it

I kind of agree... I mean, revenge isn't all that fulfilling business, but Negan did brutally murder her man whose child she is carrying. Negan even said that the "eeny, meeny, miney, mo" thing was B.S., what a dick. Rick did it all for some kumbaya crap.

Negan killed Rick's friend who had saved Rick's life. Negan incurred that neck wound in a fight, so why did Rick draw the line before justice for his friend?

@Satch_the_man said:

Negan killed Rick's friend who had saved Rick's life. Negan incurred that neck wound in a fight, so why did Rick draw the line before justice for his friend?

Carl is why. Because of Carl.

@Satch_the_man said:

@mountaingirl said:

I feel like it was 100% a betrayal on Ricks part...he prevented Maggie from getting the revenge that she's been waiting for and what's (in part) driven her to continue to lead and fight for Hilltop. He could have taken an attitude like Tara did when Darryl still wanted to kill Dwight ...“You do what you gotta do but I won't be part of it

I kind of agree... I mean, revenge isn't all that fulfilling business, but Negan did brutally murder her man whose child she is carrying. Negan even said that the "eeny, meeny, miney, mo" thing was B.S., what a dick. Rick did it all for some kumbaya crap.

Negan killed Rick's friend who had saved Rick's life. Negan incurred that neck wound in a fight, so why did Rick draw the line before justice for his friend?

He killed Abraham after the "eeny, meeny, miney, mo" bit. Glenn was in retaliation for Daryl punching him.

@Nubyan said:

@Satch_the_man said:

Negan killed Rick's friend who had saved Rick's life. Negan incurred that neck wound in a fight, so why did Rick draw the line before justice for his friend?

Carl is why. Because of Carl.

Ah yes, it's been a few weeks... I forgot about that bit of convenient writing. I thought you weren't talking to me?