The "Chili" was disgusting; I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares about it....

@Satch_the_man said:

The "Chili" was disgusting; I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares about it....

Yeah, it was a visceral scene. But then, TWD has been a trailblazer for what gets shown on TV, special effects budget, etc.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Satch_the_man said:

The "Chili" was disgusting; I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares about it....

Yeah, it was a visceral scene. But then, TWD has been a trailblazer for what gets shown on TV, special effects budget, etc.

Is it just me, or did anyone else get a slapstick comedic element out of the scene?

@Satch_the_man said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Satch_the_man said:

The "Chili" was disgusting; I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares about it....

Yeah, it was a visceral scene. But then, TWD has been a trailblazer for what gets shown on TV, special effects budget, etc.

Is it just me, or did anyone else get a slapstick comedic element out of the scene?

Honestly, I can see it.

It's TV, we know it's not real, so we cope with the violent visuals with humour to reinforce that what we're seeing is just make up and special effects. Most people, if they saw a person die violently, it would haunt them for a long time, it'd certainly not be seen as entertaining.

As for TWD, the show has pushed the envelope of what is shown "on TV" (as opposed to going to a movie that is rated; wouldn't a show like this be rated R if it were a movie?) such that we've gotten over it, it's no longer shocking or "oh my gosh, did you SEE TWD on Sunday night?" The show, then, in its attempt to keep people talking about it, do things recently like Morgan pulling the guy's intestines out, or Jadis grinding up her people.

Best ep in a while. Even a bit better that last weeks and that was a step forward. Course the nit picker in me wonders how the grinder was operating! Gas? How else, right? Nice to know Garbage Leader Lady could actually speak and that though she did not say it, their language was just another identity thing - theirs.

Negan's genuine grief over Carl was a character revelation, as in the guy has a heart. Hey, he may truly believe in what he is doing is right. How else could he d it?

For once in a long while I am looking forward to seeing how all this plays out.

The only thing I can't wait for is for Somon to get his punishment.

I don't know why the show has lost it's spark for me - even watching the Talking Dead gets on my nerves. I will keep watching because I have to see where it goes.

I do feel bad for Jadis, I know she screwed Rick and Co., I found it sad that her created world was ripped out from under her.

I totally forgot about Oceanside!

@PANDJY said:

The only thing I can't wait for is for Somon to get his punishment.

I don't know why the show has lost it's spark for me - even watching the Talking Dead gets on my nerves. I will keep watching because I have to see where it goes.

I do feel bad for Jadis, I know she screwed Rick and Co., I found it sad that her created world was ripped out from under her.

I totally forgot about Oceanside!

I am sure once Negan finds out what Simon did it'll be either a face burn (if he still has the iron) or execution. One thing Negan can't stand is disobedience, and Simon being a "lieutenant" he will certainly receive a harsh reproach

The show lost it's spark I believe for many in season six first with the whole build up to Negan, then the fake Glenn death, and then the horrible finale which left everyone p.o'd. Negan not being the big hulk of a man the graphic novels depict did not help either (JDM is a good actor and I love his work elsewhere but he is miscast as this character) Then the emasculated Rick who did not even consider forming some kind of plan to fight back, just moped for almost the entirety of season seven... loads of viewers either expressed their frustration or walked away entirely (the ratings have taken a huge dip - yet it is still AMC's top show which is like being the #1 band in your local college. And who recalls when AMC meant American Movie Classics? They had all the great old black and white movies! Then Ted Turner swooped in and bought them all! Anyway...) That is my thoughts on the spark loss.

@Oldnewbie said:

@PANDJY said:

The only thing I can't wait for is for Somon to get his punishment.

I don't know why the show has lost it's spark for me - even watching the Talking Dead gets on my nerves. I will keep watching because I have to see where it goes.

I do feel bad for Jadis, I know she screwed Rick and Co., I found it sad that her created world was ripped out from under her.

I totally forgot about Oceanside!

I am sure once Negan finds out what Simon did it'll be either a face burn (if he still has the iron) or execution. One thing Negan can't stand is disobedience, and Simon being a "lieutenant" he will certainly receive a harsh reproach

The show lost it's spark I believe for many in season six first with the whole build up to Negan, then the fake Glenn death, and then the horrible finale which left everyone p.o'd. Negan not being the big hulk of a man the graphic novels depict did not help either (JDM is a good actor and I love his work elsewhere but he is miscast as this character) Then the emasculated Rick who did not even consider forming some kind of plan to fight back, just moped for almost the entirety of season seven... loads of viewers either expressed their frustration or walked away entirely (the ratings have taken a huge dip - yet it is still AMC's top show which is like being the #1 band in your local college. And who recalls when AMC meant American Movie Classics? They had all the great old black and white movies! Then Ted Turner swooped in and bought them all! Anyway...) That is my thoughts on the spark loss.

I think Negan is going to kill Simon, and that might spark his inner circle to start doubting the wisdom of remaining loyal to Negan. That organization is held together by fear, and by the inner circle's love of the power they get from being close to Negan. The inner circle doesn't fear much, they feel safe because they support Negan. If they begin to doubt their safety, they could begin to splinter away. I don't know, but the scene is set to go that way, if the writers want to take it there.

At some point Negan needs to die. The show has been building the viewers hatred of him for some time, and they keep giving us reasons to hate him. Until now, the 'saviors' have been too big, too strong, for Rick and the gang to take them down. But the saviors organization has a weakness; it is mostly held together by fear. The other thing holding it together is the love of power the inner circle gets from supporting Negan. They feel safe because they support him. If they begin to question that safety, their loyalty might begin to wane.

Jadis has been far too willing to switch to whichever side she thinks is stronger, and to break her promises to others. But for all her caveman ug ug grunting out broken English, I think she is hiding some powerful capabilities not yet revealed to us. Negan will feel the brunt of her retaliation I believe. He will find out the hard way that Simon lied to him. That will make him angry enough to kill him. I just don't know how Jadis will hit him back. I am curious to see that. Somehow I think the saviors organization is going to start falling apart pretty soon.

I would like to see that anyway. I am getting a bit fed up with Negan, with the missed opportunities to kill him. Whenever someone has a chance to kill Negan, they want to stop and tell him off first, and he gets away somehow. I know why the writers have not killed him yet. He has been good for ratings. People love to hate him, and they keep tuning in to see if the tables can be turned on him. There have been teases, the attack on the savior compound, and subsequent battles. They keep dragging this out, milking it for as long as they can. After they kill Negan, they will have to come up with some other sub plot to keep the viewers interested.
But they will try to keep riding the Negan plot as long as they think it will hold our interest.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

As for TWD, the show has pushed the envelope of what is shown "on TV" (as opposed to going to a movie that is rated; wouldn't a show like this be rated R if it were a movie?) such that we've gotten over it, it's no longer shocking or "oh my gosh, did you SEE TWD on Sunday night?" The show, then, in its attempt to keep people talking about it, do things recently like Morgan pulling the guy's intestines out, or Jadis grinding up her people.

The extremes the show regularly goes to, like what you mentioned, give me pause. I thought that they just did it to please gore-hounds.

@write2topcat said:

@Oldnewbie said:

The show lost it's spark I believe for many in season six first with the whole build up to Negan, then the fake Glenn death, and then the horrible finale which left everyone p.o'd. Negan not being the big hulk of a man the graphic novels depict did not help either (JDM is a good actor and I love his work elsewhere but he is miscast as this character) Then the emasculated Rick who did not even consider forming some kind of plan to fight back, just moped for almost the entirety of season seven... loads of viewers either expressed their frustration or walked away entirely (the ratings have taken a huge dip - yet it is still AMC's top show which is like being the #1 band in your local college. And who recalls when AMC meant American Movie Classics? They had all the great old black and white movies! Then Ted Turner swooped in and bought them all! Anyway...) That is my thoughts on the spark loss.

REPLY: I think you may have hit the nail on the head - The Glen death/no death/death pushed me to the edge of patience. There was no need for that roller coaster of a ride. I love JDM, Negan not so much. I find him more annoying than anything. Rick - I don't know if it is Andrew Lincoln or the direction given but .... he has zero chemistry with everyone. I didn't get "it" with Micchone and Rick becoming a couple and I am finding him dull.

I am old enough to remember AMC ... LOL. I'm not sure what channel has them now, but I have found a few!

At some point Negan needs to die. The show has been building the viewers hatred of him for some time, and they keep giving us reasons to hate him. Until now, the 'saviors' have been too big, too strong, for Rick and the gang to take them down. But the saviors organization has a weakness; it is mostly held together by fear. The other thing holding it together is the love of power the inner circle gets from supporting Negan. They feel safe because they support him. If they begin to question that safety, their loyalty might begin to wane.

I would like to see that anyway. I am getting a bit fed up with Negan, with the missed opportunities to kill him. Whenever someone has a chance to kill Negan, they want to stop and tell him off first, and he gets away somehow. I know why the writers have not killed him yet. He has been good for ratings. People love to hate him, and they keep tuning in to see if the tables can be turned on him. There have been teases, the attack on the savior compound, and subsequent battles. They keep dragging this out, milking it for as long as they can. After they kill Negan, they will have to come up with some other sub plot to keep the viewers interested.
But they will try to keep riding the Negan plot as long as they think it will hold our interest.

REPLY: This has been the longest = what three days? A week? in the history of television. I feel like they stylized the magic out of the show.

Even the Chili scene with Jadis - it looked like performance art (mixed with gore lol) The Garbage People are filthy - yet she had a pristine, white, satin dress???? I hope you're right and she has a little something something up her sleeve!!!!

I too am fed up with Negan - it was so long ago but didn't Rick have him in his gun site? Then didn't RIck just let the moment pass? I am definitely ready for the Saviour story to be done.

"I too am fed up with Negan - it was so long ago but didn't Rick have him in his gun site? Then didn't RIck just let the moment pass? I am definitely ready for the Saviour story to be done."

I recall Carl making a suicide run at Negan when he stowed away in that truck, and first thing he did was shoot a savior, without hesitation, and then with Negan in plain sight, right there, Carl doesn't shoot. Instead he talks to Negan, telling him off. Then other saviors sneak up and disarm him, so he lost the chance to kill him. When they hit the savior compound they picked off some saviors, then Negan comes out and struts around talking to them with his big, booming voice, out in the open, and nobody takes a shot. Did they make some rule I didn't hear about? You have to talk to him before you can try to kill him?

When Rick fought Negan in that house, just the two of them, he wrestled the barbed wire bat away from Negan, the same bat used to kill Glen and Abraham. And what does he do with it? He bumps the handle end into his face, which only stuns Negan for a second before he hits Rick in the nuts. I would have swung for the fences straight down on his head, the way he did to Glen.

I don't recall the specific scene you mentioned because there have been so many. I am reminded of Tuco in one of the Eastwood spaghetti westerns, I think The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, when a man hesitated shooting while he told Tuco off. Tuco managed to grab a gun and kill him. Then he said "when you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." Good advice.

Rick has gotten a bit flat, has the same affect all the time. The first couple of seasons had so much going for it, internal conflicts within the group, the group on the move so often, trying one place after another, and facing external threats as well. Since they settled into Alexandria they've been facing external threats for the most part. And this thing with Negan has dragged on a bit too long, especially given the way they almost intentionally miss opportunities to end it.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Satch_the_man said:

The "Chili" was disgusting; I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares about it....

Yeah, it was a visceral scene. But then, TWD has been a trailblazer for what gets shown on TV, special effects budget, etc.

I believe someone on the Guardian website called it 'zombolognese'

@grayfox_001 said:

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@Satch_the_man said:

The "Chili" was disgusting; I'm surprised I didn't have nightmares about it....

Yeah, it was a visceral scene. But then, TWD has been a trailblazer for what gets shown on TV, special effects budget, etc.

I believe someone on the Guardian website called it 'zombolognese'

That's a good one, zombolognese. Zombie sausage, ground zombie, zombie burger meat.

That scene showed that Jadis is resourceful, and has contingency plans. I have to believe she has something big planned as retaliation against the saviors now. Rick was understandably fed up with her. Jadis has played both sides too many times, so it is hard to feel sorry for her over this. In fact you could say the scavengers had been tempting fate quite a long time and something like this was to be expected. How could anyone really trust her at this point?

But that chopped-English speaking, pretentious primitive garbage lady has contingency plans, and I believe she is capable of much more than has been revealed to date. As I said elsewhere in other words, I think she will unleash a telling blow against the saviors, and then Negan will find out his lieutenant disobeyed orders, and lied to his face about it afterwards. Given what we know about Negan, that will infuriate him and provoke him to kill the man, probably in an extremely brutal and public fashion.

And I have to wonder how that is going to affect the rest of his inner circle, and the rest of his followers. These attacks on the saviors are showing the members of that group that they are not nearly so safe as they thought they were, and that Negan cannot control others the way they thought he could. If things play out this way, it sets the stage for defections from the saviors. The followers have put up with the brutal dictatorship because they were kept safe, and well fed and provided for. But they don't love Negan, they fear him. If they begin to doubt that Negan will keep them safe, fed, and protected, their motivation for remaining loyal will be gone. Negan's inner circle may also begin to question their status and safety. If a top lieutenant can be brutally executed by a furious, enraged Negan, when might it happen to them as well?

That is a whole string of "ifs", but I would not be surprised to see things play out that way, or in some similar way. It is hard to hold together an organization structured like the saviors for the long haul.

I picture Negan's end coming, when it finally comes, with him largely abandoned by his 'saviors'. They don't love him, and he doesn't love them. He controls them through fear and terror. Once his grip begins slipping, and his organization ceases fearing him, they may actually turn him over to Rick and the gang.

I hope Maggie gets a crack at his head with that barbed wire bat.

@Oldnewbie said:

@PANDJY said:

The only thing I can't wait for is for Somon to get his punishment.

I don't know why the show has lost it's spark for me - even watching the Talking Dead gets on my nerves. I will keep watching because I have to see where it goes.

I do feel bad for Jadis, I know she screwed Rick and Co., I found it sad that her created world was ripped out from under her.

I totally forgot about Oceanside!

I am sure once Negan finds out what Simon did it'll be either a face burn (if he still has the iron) or execution. One thing Negan can't stand is disobedience, and Simon being a "lieutenant" he will certainly receive a harsh reproach

The show lost it's spark I believe for many in season six first with the whole build up to Negan, then the fake Glenn death, and then the horrible finale which left everyone p.o'd. Negan not being the big hulk of a man the graphic novels depict did not help either (JDM is a good actor and I love his work elsewhere but he is miscast as this character) Then the emasculated Rick who did not even consider forming some kind of plan to fight back, just moped for almost the entirety of season seven... loads of viewers either expressed their frustration or walked away entirely (the ratings have taken a huge dip - yet it is still AMC's top show which is like being the #1 band in your local college. And who recalls when AMC meant American Movie Classics? They had all the great old black and white movies! Then Ted Turner swooped in and bought them all! Anyway...) That is my thoughts on the spark loss.

Think this all sort of hits the nail on the head for that specific season but there is a bigger problem and that’s that dramas have a shelf life and have to end sometime.

The thing about TWD is it has/had a big following among people who dont/haven’t read the books (I’m one of them - i’d like to but family/work/life/time unfortunately won’t allow it).

TWD exists as a TV drama only for a hell of a lot of people and we need our stories to begin and end. I know a lot of book readers have favourite aspects of the graphic novel that they want to see adapted and it has sometimes felt like the makers are quite happy to adapt everything as the show is so popular.

These aspects may be things that work better in the written/comic form over a long period of time but on TV there’s gonna come a point where we want to know what caused outbreak, is there a cure, are they all gonna die, will they escape to somewhere safe etc.

As a TV viewer I’ve seen the bad humans/communities enough times already - if they’re going to continue then its gotta be really compelling take. The problem with Negan is he’s been built up by book readers for ages but apart from his brutality it doesn’t feel different enough from, say the Governor to justify a whole season let alone two when all those other questions are left unanswered. Feels like we’re treading water to get as much milage as possible out of the programme (although Negan’s connection with Carl was interesting).

They need to finish the story. Make it feel like we’re heading to some sort of conclusion or the casual viewers like me will desert the show before they have a chance to wrap it up satisfactorily.

See enjoying the show though

@write2topcat said:

I recall Carl making a suicide run at Negan when he stowed away in that truck, and first thing he did was shoot a savior, without hesitation, and then with Negan in plain sight, right there, Carl doesn't shoot. Instead he talks to Negan, telling him off. Then other saviors sneak up and disarm him, so he lost the chance to kill him. ..... and all the other examples ....

You're right, I can't believe I forgot! Although, it just goes to show that I am not watching with one eye.

When Michonne and Rick were putting out the fire, in a place full of zombies. that they will never return to ... all I could think was "What a waste of resources"