@tinyrobotstakeovertheworld said:

Good point, I was thinking much thesame with the Oceansides weapons.

I thought it was a little over the top that they had to take every single gun. They've got a bunch of kids there, even if some of them are little psychopaths in training, and well ... look what just happened. The camp was attacked by walkers! Sorry ladies, next time you'll be holding them off hand to hand. Can't leave you one crate of guns to protect yourselves.

I certainly wouldn't put Rick in the same category as Negan though. Remember Oceanside did make a practice of killing poor random wanderers on the off chance they might reveal their location. And the Alexandria/Hilltop group didn't bash anyone's skull in just to show they were serious. But trying to keep your moral compass and stay one of the good guys in a world that forces you to do things you're not proud of has been a core theme of TWD from the very beginning.

@chrisjdel said:

@tinyrobotstakeovertheworld said:

Good point, I was thinking much thesame with the Oceansides weapons.

I thought it was a little over the top that they had to take every single gun. They've got a bunch of kids there, even if some of them are little psychopaths in training, and well ... look what just happened. The camp was attacked by walkers! Sorry ladies, next time you'll be holding them off hand to hand. Can't leave you one crate of guns to protect yourselves.

I certainly wouldn't put Rick in the same category as Negan though. Remember Oceanside did make a practice of killing poor random wanderers on the off chance they might reveal their location. And the Alexandria/Hilltop group didn't bash anyone's skull in just to show they were serious. But trying to keep your moral compass and stay one of the good guys in a world that forces you to do things you're not proud of has been a core theme of TWD from the very beginning.

I agree with all of your points. Especially "didn't bash anyone's skull in just to show they were serious."

@izzybee3 said:

@chrisjdel said:

@tinyrobotstakeovertheworld said:

Good point, I was thinking much thesame with the Oceansides weapons.

I thought it was a little over the top that they had to take every single gun. They've got a bunch of kids there, even if some of them are little psychopaths in training, and well ... look what just happened. The camp was attacked by walkers! Sorry ladies, next time you'll be holding them off hand to hand. Can't leave you one crate of guns to protect yourselves.

I certainly wouldn't put Rick in the same category as Negan though. Remember Oceanside did make a practice of killing poor random wanderers on the off chance they might reveal their location. And the Alexandria/Hilltop group didn't bash anyone's skull in just to show they were serious. But trying to keep your moral compass and stay one of the good guys in a world that forces you to do things you're not proud of has been a core theme of TWD from the very beginning.

I agree with all of your points. Especially "didn't bash anyone's skull in just to show they were serious."

Maybe not yet... but they sure seem to get closer and closer to that point.. Rick's cold "kneel just so I can put a gun to your head" thing in the end of the episode. He was already behind bars. He said he wanted to help. The original Rick Grimes would have acted differently.

Also don't forget killing people in their sleep prentetively at the satellite station..

@tinyrobotstakeovertheworld said:

Maybe not yet... but they sure seem to get closer and closer to that point.. Rick's cold "kneel just so I can put a gun to your head" thing in the end of the episode. He was already behind bars. He said he wanted to help. The original Rick Grimes would have acted differently.

Also don't forget killing people in their sleep prentetively at the satellite station..

Oh, yeah....that. He has been heading down this road all along, and really, is there any other way unless you want to die or worse. I'd like to think that everyone would just sit around the fire and sing Kumbaya and rebuild society, but our world it not like that **without **zombies.

As for me, I would be Negan's bitch.

It's a kill or be killed world and always had been. Everyone has a different society on how to survive. To be fair to Rick though, on Oceanside, they were going to kill Tara. If it wasn't for the girl that saved her then Tara would have been dead on the beach and if not then dead in town or dead when they took her out of town. That's why there was a time limit to talk to them. Rick and his gang didn't kill anyone. They just took their guns and didn't Tara say they would return them? Negan would have not only just took their guns but everything else and would probably have killed one of them to make a point when they rebelled. Rick did steal but they had no choice and Oceanside's leader could have decided to not be a coward when a lot of the ladies in the camp wanted to fight Negan.

@Hawkychico-1 said:

It's a kill or be killed world and always had been. Everyone has a different society on how to survive. To be fair to Rick though, on Oceanside, they were going to kill Tara. If it wasn't for the girl that saved her then Tara would have been dead on the beach and if not then dead in town or dead when they took her out of town. That's why there was a time limit to talk to them. Rick and his gang didn't kill anyone. They just took their guns and didn't Tara say they would return them? Negan would have not only just took their guns but everything else and would probably have killed one of them to make a point when they rebelled. Rick did steal but they had no choice and Oceanside's leader could have decided to not be a coward when a lot of the ladies in the camp wanted to fight Negan.

I don't think Oceanside's leader is a coward. After watching every male over the age of ten summarily executed by Negan she wasn't going to send her people back into that situation no matter what. It's a case of someone being victimized who then overcompensates to avoid being victimized again. She may be misguided, but she is doing what she believes best for her people.

Yes, it's a hard world. But Rick and company have always gone out of their way not to kill people simply because they don't know them. They generally give every new face a chance to prove themselves (even if you don't get a second chance). Killing the Saviors at the satellite station in their sleep didn't really sit well with anyone even knowing they were pretty bad hombres; although after they looked around the rooms and saw those pictures of mutilated bodies, any trace of sympathy quickly vanished. These were hard core sociopaths who got what was coming to them.

@chrisjdel said:

@Hawkychico-1 said:

It's a kill or be killed world and always had been. Everyone has a different society on how to survive. To be fair to Rick though, on Oceanside, they were going to kill Tara. If it wasn't for the girl that saved her then Tara would have been dead on the beach and if not then dead in town or dead when they took her out of town. That's why there was a time limit to talk to them. Rick and his gang didn't kill anyone. They just took their guns and didn't Tara say they would return them? Negan would have not only just took their guns but everything else and would probably have killed one of them to make a point when they rebelled. Rick did steal but they had no choice and Oceanside's leader could have decided to not be a coward when a lot of the ladies in the camp wanted to fight Negan.

I don't think Oceanside's leader is a coward. After watching every male over the age of ten summarily executed by Negan she wasn't going to send her people back into that situation no matter what. It's a case of someone being victimized who then overcompensates to avoid being victimized again. She may be misguided, but she is doing what she believes best for her people.

Yes, it's a hard world. But Rick and company have always gone out of their way not to kill people simply because they don't know them. They generally give every new face a chance to prove themselves (even if you don't get a second chance). Killing the Saviors at the satellite station in their sleep didn't really sit well with anyone even knowing they were pretty bad hombres; although after they looked around the rooms and saw those pictures of mutilated bodies, any trace of sympathy quickly vanished. These were hard core sociopaths who got what was coming to them.

Good point. She is trying to the best for her people like Ezekiel. He was keeping the peace and she is keeping her people hidden. Coward I guess was a strong word. I am glad you brought that up. They have been through a lot of crap and trust nobody. The one person they could trust ratted them out. That's why she wanted to kill Tara in the first place. She was right that she would tell her group and they would come back.

I agree. That was such a dick move on Rick's part, bullying a community of women for their guns.

@LadyGigi said:

I agree. That was such a dick move on Rick's part, bullying a community of women for their guns.

In their situation they needed to get those guns anywhere they could. What they shouldn't have done, in my opinion, is to take every last gun. They should have left one crate behind so the Oceansiders could protect their settlement. A drop in the bucket to their original arsenal but enough to keep them safe until the war with the Saviors was over.

@chrisjdel said:

@LadyGigi said:

I agree. That was such a dick move on Rick's part, bullying a community of women for their guns.

In their situation they needed to get those guns anywhere they could. What they shouldn't have done, in my opinion, is to take every last gun. They should have left one crate behind so the Oceansiders could protect their settlement. A drop in the bucket to their original arsenal but enough to keep them safe until the war with the Saviors was over.

Nah Rick was the bad guy in this situation.

@LadyGigi said: Nah Rick was the bad guy in this situation.

What would you have him do? Rick knew it was only a matter of time before Negan learned they were plotting against him, and it appears their time has indeed run out. With Hilltop and the junk people armed and ready to fight they can at least hold off the Saviors. Add the Kingdom (who have their own guns) and suddenly the Saviors no longer have superiority. Who knows what Jadis plans to do after the war ends but as weird as they are her people are vital to success. There was simply no other way to arm Alexandria and the Hilltop, plus the Queen of The Landfill, without Oceanside's weapons. This makes their attack an unpalatable but necessary first step. And hey, they were able to pull it off without a single casualty on either side! Not too shabby.

@chrisjdel said:

@LadyGigi said: Nah Rick was the bad guy in this situation.

What would you have him do? Rick knew it was only a matter of time before Negan learned they were plotting against him, and it appears their time has indeed run out. With Hilltop and the junk people armed and ready to fight they can at least hold off the Saviors. Add the Kingdom (who have their own guns) and suddenly the Saviors no longer have superiority. Who knows what Jadis plans to do after the war ends but as weird as they are her people are vital to success. There was simply no other way to arm Alexandria and the Hilltop, plus the Queen of The Landfill, without Oceanside's weapons. This makes their attack an unpalatable but necessary first step. And hey, they were able to pull it off without a single casualty on either side! Not too shabby.

So Rick is a stupid bad guy? How are those women supposed to protect themselves now? Even if Rick somehow managed to bring their guns back, there wouldn't be any ammunition in them. What is the fucking point of having weapons without ammo?

@LadyGigi said: So Rick is a stupid bad guy? How are those women supposed to protect themselves now? Even if Rick somehow managed to bring their guns back, there wouldn't be any ammunition in them. What is the fucking point of having weapons without ammo?

I already said they should've left them one crate of guns. The Saviors don't know where they are right now. It's basically going to be walkers they have to worry about, and the large group that attacked this episode was drawn in by all the explosions. Most of them looked like they'd been wandering around on the ocean floor before those concussions brought them onto land. Their little island is mostly clear. So ten or fifteen guns is all they really need for the time being.

If Rick comes back and tells them the Saviors have been vanquished, things will change. They'll come out of their shell and establish relations with the other communities. If the Saviors win, they'll eventually find Oceanside regardless. They're always expanding their territory and supplies are getting scarcer and harder to scavenge with time. A fully functional underground city - something like that might escape notice indefinitely. Oceanside wouldn't.

@chrisjdel said:

@LadyGigi said: So Rick is a stupid bad guy? How are those women supposed to protect themselves now? Even if Rick somehow managed to bring their guns back, there wouldn't be any ammunition in them. What is the fucking point of having weapons without ammo?

I already said they should've left them one crate of guns. The Saviors don't know where they are right now. It's basically going to be walkers they have to worry about, and the large group that attacked this episode was drawn in by all the explosions. Most of them looked like they'd been wandering around on the ocean floor before those concussions brought them onto land. Their little island is mostly clear. So ten or fifteen guns is all they really need for the time being.

If Rick comes back and tells them the Saviors have been vanquished, things will change. They'll come out of their shell and establish relations with the other communities. If the Saviors win, they'll eventually find Oceanside regardless. They're always expanding their territory and supplies are getting scarcer and harder to scavenge with time. A fully functional underground city - something like that might escape notice indefinitely. Oceanside wouldn't.

Thanks for confirming that Rick is a stupid bad guy. And leaving them a crate of guns is what Negan would do. Hence the title of the thread. Lol

@LadyGigi said: Thanks for confirming that Rick is a stupid bad guy. And leaving them a crate of guns is what Negan would do. Hence the title of the thread. Lol

Why would Negan leave them a crate of guns? He would take the guns, along with half of everything else, and cave some heads in with Lucille. Rick should've left them a few guns but you can hardly compare the results of their visit with a social call by the Saviors. And I repeat: the Oceansiders have killed a fair number of people who never threatened them or did anything wrong, they're not exactly a bunch of blameless victims.