@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

Would they not be better off simply growing their own cantaloupe in the first place?

I know. The writing has hit the point where it defies all logic.

@John Ell said:

@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

Would they not be better off simply growing their own cantaloupe in the first place?

I know. The writing has hit the point where it defies all logic.

The Saviors are made up mostly of former criminals and gang members. Can you honestly see them setting up a garden and growing stuff? At the Sanctuary they've probably got some of their laborers doing that, but the outposts (like the one at that satellite station) seem to rely on the communities in their assigned areas for food. I think they probably captured a supply of gasoline big enough that most of it will go bad before it's used anyway so they don't bother conserving it. Actually stored gas should already be unusable at this point but that's something TWD has so far chosen to ignore. In all fairness it's pretty typical of post-apocalyptic movies and shows that fuel, ammo, and working vehicles seem to be around even decades after the fall of civilization.

@Animus said:

@krashd said:

Seeing as the cantaloupes were in uncovered trays at the rear of the truck and there was like 5 people standing in the back of the truck I imagine the conversation all the way from the supermarket (with the shopping carts) right up to the meeting with the Saviours went something like this...

• Henchman A: "Richard, I think there's only 5 cantaloupes in that box!"
• Richard: "No, there's 6."
• Henchman B: "It really does look like there's only 5. There's 6 in the other."
• Richard: "There's 6, look 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.. 6"
• Fat Henchman: "You pointed at the fifth cantaloupe twice!"
• Richard: "No, it just rolled next to cantaloupe 6."
• Henchman A: "Bullcrap! They can't roll! 6 fits a box, sometimes 8 with two small ones in the middle spaces."
• Richard: "Look, shut up, I'm in charge and anyway here's the Saviours!"
• Henchman B: "No it's not, we've got 35 miles to go. Now stop squatting to hide the box, you can't need to take a dump already!"

There were 12 cantaloupes in the two crates until they reached their destination. Once they arrived and departed the truck, Richard was the last one out and hid the cantaloupe under another box. I thought this was pretty clear to everyone that watched it?!

Well how did he manage to teleport the missing cantaloupe back to the area with the shopping carts and the open grave where Morgan found it? They haven't found any technology capable of that. That's what was obvious to me, I think Morgan's flashback to earlier when finding the cantaloupe by the carts on his walk home made it even doubly obvious, but then I happen to watch the show.

@krashd said:

Well how did he manage to teleport the missing cantaloupe back to the area with the shopping carts and the open grave where Morgan found it? They haven't found any technology capable of that. That's what was obvious to me, I think Morgan's flashback to earlier when finding the cantaloupe by the carts on his walk home made it even doubly obvious, but then I happen to watch the show.

"The sarcasm is great with this one...mmmmm...yes." #wellplayedsirwellplayed

@chrisjdel said:

@velvet_roses said: Absolutely ! But then again there must be other communities further away who already scavenged the other areas... So what ? The foragers providing for the saviors should do what exactly ? (I know, I know, rob the people, but still)... In any case I do see your point, and you are right about eventually having to produce everything. I was just pointing out that I find it hard to believe that there are still that many unscavenged places left. I mean, the US has 300M inhabitants. Even if only 1% of the population had survived the initial infection, that's still a relative lot of people who must have foraged a bit and likely moved further south (aka Georgia)because they could not live through the cold autumns/winters upper north... :/ Our folks would logically be in a relatively crowded area, hence more already foraged places, no ?

Am I overthinking this ? I think I might be. Hahah

You've got products in warehouses and retail outlets intended to provide for a nation of 330 million and a few hundred thousand survivors at most. I can't remember exactly how many. Robert Kirkman threw out a number at one point, of what fraction of those living before the ZA are currently still alive. Everyone keeps a low profile so there are more people around than it seems but still, the vast majority are now mindlessly staggering around looking for fresh meat. Storage facilities with poor signage in remote areas may still be intact. And of course, anyplace that's so overrun it's impossible to access. A coordinated effort to lead the walkers away in a big herd could empty such areas enough to finish clearing them the old fashioned way and then ... jackpot! But those lovely scores will be fewer and fewer as time goes by, until there's nothing significant left.

There are still some years remaining when you've probably got enough of the right talent still alive, and enough of the old factories are in working order (or fixable) that civilization could rise from the ashes. The longer it takes to get a big enough organization going and enough people together the harder that goal becomes though. Despite Negan's bold claims of the Saviors bringing civilization back to the world, all they really are is a bunch of looters and thugs. If someone does deliver on that promise it won't be them.

After a couple of years even the packaged and canned foods will not be edible. They may continue to live off the dregs of other supplies for years but they have to start farming like the Kingdom has done.

@jonnieblack said: After a couple of years even the packaged and canned foods will not be edible. They may continue to live off the dregs of other supplies for years but they have to start farming like the Kingdom has done.

It's like the leader of the junk people said. More and more of the canned foods are rotten and contaminated when they open them. Some stuff has a very long shelf life. Dried vacuum packed fruits and meats could be edible for decades, as would desserts like Twinkies, and of course pre-packaged rations like MREs. Only so much of that stuff to go around though. You can't depend on scavenging forever. The Kingdom and the Hilltop have the right idea. Ration packs etc. are best used as supplements until you're fully self-sufficient. Waiting until you run out of them to start serious farming would be a mistake. Someone needs to think about rounding up whatever cows are left in the outside world. The survivors will be the ones who were smart enough to get really afraid of humans really fast, and will run away when approached, so you are going to have to round them up rodeo style.

@Animus said:

The scenes in this show are getting more and more ridiculous with each episode. I laughed when I saw the tribute in the back of that old truck. Two small boxes with what were suppose to be 6 cantaloupes each in them, sitting all by themselves in an otherwise empty bed. Would they have needed a semi if they would have had a full basket of fruits and veggies?

smh, This show is so done. I guess we are supposed to believe that 12 cantaloupes is the required tribute. And look at this! You are short ONE?! Shoot the kid. They done need to be taught a lesson (twists moustache and laughs "MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!" simultaneously). How fkn insulting was that to the audience. I feel like I am watching Saturday morning cartoons again where the bad guys are bad guys... because!

@movie_nazi said:

@Animus said:

The scenes in this show are getting more and more ridiculous with each episode. I laughed when I saw the tribute in the back of that old truck. Two small boxes with what were suppose to be 6 cantaloupes each in them, sitting all by themselves in an otherwise empty bed. Would they have needed a semi if they would have had a full basket of fruits and veggies?

smh, This show is so done. I guess we are supposed to believe that 12 cantaloupes is the required tribute. And look at this! You are short ONE?! Shoot the kid. They done need to be taught a lesson (twists moustache and laughs "MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!" simultaneously). How fkn insulting was that to the audience. I feel like I am watching Saturday morning cartoons again where the bad guys are bad guys... because!

It's funny, but in the opening scene when I saw ONE cantaloupe in the truck all strapped down and Ezekiel closing the doors I thought it was an "insult tribute" to start a war. Then when I saw the huge truck with 12...er 11 cantaloupes in it I was like, really? Kinda disappointed. That whole story line is kinda silly (the shopping carts just to remove one cantaloupe?). Silly.

@Daddie0 said:

It's funny, but in the opening scene when I saw ONE cantaloupe in the truck all strapped down and Ezekiel closing the doors I thought it was an "insult tribute" to start a war. Then when I saw the huge truck with 12...er 11 cantaloupes in it I was like, really? Kinda disappointed. That whole story line is kinda silly (the shopping carts just to remove one cantaloupe?). Silly.

It's completely asinine. They are not even trying anymore.

@chrisjdel said:

You've got products in warehouses and retail outlets intended to provide for a nation of 330 million and a few hundred thousand survivors at most. I can't remember exactly how many. Robert Kirkman threw out a number at one point, of what fraction of those living before the ZA are currently still alive. Everyone keeps a low profile so there are more people around than it seems but still, the vast majority are now mindlessly staggering around looking for fresh meat. Storage facilities with poor signage in remote areas may still be intact. And of course, anyplace that's so overrun it's impossible to access. A coordinated effort to lead the walkers away in a big herd could empty such areas enough to finish clearing them the old fashioned way and then ... jackpot! But those lovely scores will be fewer and fewer as time goes by, until there's nothing significant left.

There are still some years remaining when you've probably got enough of the right talent still alive, and enough of the old factories are in working order (or fixable) that civilization could rise from the ashes. The longer it takes to get a big enough organization going and enough people together the harder that goal becomes though. Despite Negan's bold claims of the Saviors bringing civilization back to the world, all they really are is a bunch of looters and thugs. If someone does deliver on that promise it won't be them.

I didn't know you had warehouses like that. That's good to know, in case there's a zombie apocalypse hahahah !

In any case what really annoys me the most in that show is that the only thing that is not finite seems to be the goddamned zombies. I mean, ok let's say only 1% of the population survives the initial infection. That's 3 million people for 297,000,000 zombies. If you consider other casualties (people who made friends with the Governor, or ones who ended up at the terminus, for instance), let's be pessimistic and say we have 2 million people left (in the US). If each of those people kills, I don't know, 1 zombie per 2 days, that's 182 zombies a year x 2M people... so 364M zombies are dead already after a year.

What I'm saying is, I'm not buying this crap and it's getting more and more annoying to me.

EDIT : Just in case anyone's interested, in comic book #10 it says zombies outnumber humans 5,000 to 1, so that's roughly 60K ppl for 299,940,000 zombies. By the end of season 4 in the show we had seen 253 people die. Let's suppose this is the number of deaths per state. That's roughly 13K casualties, which would leave us with 47K people after about a year of apocalypse.

If each of those 47K people kill one zombie every two days, that's 182 zombies x 47K = 8.5M zombies taken out per year. So it would take 35M years to clear them out.
However, those 13K people, before they died, have likely killed a few zombies too. By the end of S4, the average WD character had killed 47.4 zombies (the decimal is important XD ) So let's assume those 13K had each killed 24 zombies before dying (I'm being pessimistic), they would have taken out 312K zombies before they left us. Which leaves 299,628,000 zombies and really does not make much of a difference. We're screwed.

I am mind blown. Somebody should start working on this.

@movie_nazi said:

@velvet_roses said: I mean, come on, you've been scouting the same area for what, five years, and there are other groups... How many supplies can there still be without you having to go further and further ?

5 years? Not quite. It's been more like 2 years. Judith is still a toddler.

Yeah I know but Carl has gone from 8 y-o to, like, 14 in the meantime. I'm not sure what's going on here.

@velvet_roses said:

Yeah I know but Carl has gone from 8 y-o to, like, 14 in the meantime. I'm not sure what's going on here.

Ha ha! The kid grew! Can't do nothing about that!

@velvet_roses said:

I didn't know you had warehouses like that. That's good to know, in case there's a zombie apocalypse hahahah !

In any case what really annoys me the most in that show is that the only thing that is not finite seems to be the goddamned zombies. I mean, ok let's say only 1% of the population survives the initial infection. That's 3 million people for 297,000,000 zombies. If you consider other casualties (people who made friends with the Governor, or ones who ended up at the terminus, for instance), let's be pessimistic and say we have 2 million people left (in the US). If each of those people kills, I don't know, 1 zombie per 2 days, that's 182 zombies a year x 2M people... so 364M zombies are dead already after a year.

What I'm saying is, I'm not buying this crap and it's getting more and more annoying to me.

EDIT : Just in case anyone's interested, in comic book #10 it says zombies outnumber humans 5,000 to 1, so that's roughly 60K ppl for 299,940,000 zombies. By the end of season 4 in the show we had seen 253 people die. Let's suppose this is the number of deaths per state. That's roughly 13K casualties, which would leave us with 47K people after about a year of apocalypse.

If each of those 47K people kill one zombie every two days, that's 182 zombies x 47K = 8.5M zombies taken out per year. So it would take 35M years to clear them out.
However, those 13K people, before they died, have likely killed a few zombies too. By the end of S4, the average WD character had killed 47.4 zombies (the decimal is important XD ) So let's assume those 13K had each killed 24 zombies before dying (I'm being pessimistic), they would have taken out 312K zombies before they left us. Which leaves 299,628,000 zombies and really does not make much of a difference. We're screwed.

I am mind blown. Somebody should start working on this.

Wholesale warehouses are frequently located in rural areas just off the highway, along major truck routes. The real estate is cheap and they're still well placed to receive and ship out goods. These aren't places where the public goes to shop so there's no billboard announcing it, if you know the company's name you can find the facility on a map though.

We already know there are a holy shitload of zombies for every surviving human. Crazy Morgan's solution, to go out and clear them all, is ... well, crazy. But the old walkers are looking a bit worse for wear every season. They're decomposing much, much slower than a normal corpse (which would be skeletal after a few months) but they are decomposing. The walker herds roaming the countryside will eventually be gone. So the smart strategy is to do what most surviving communities have done: put up good strong walls and try to stay alive until then.

@velvet_roses said:

Just in case anyone's interested, in comic book #10 it says zombies outnumber humans 5,000 to 1

Ha ha, thanks for that - that is interesting. I started a thread on here a few weeks ago recalling an old imdb discussion were someone was saying the walker numbers should start running out at some point, but didn't know that ratio!

Without expanding out into exact numbers (for simplicity), your ratio says every person has to kill 5,000 walkers.

So if all these survivors managed to hole up in walled communities and defensively took out one walker per person per day, that's going to take 5000/365 = 13.7 years before they're all gone! And that's before even looking at any attrition rate for that initial 1 in 5,000 survivors...

@The Midi-chlorian Count said:

@velvet_roses said:

Just in case anyone's interested, in comic book #10 it says zombies outnumber humans 5,000 to 1

Ha ha, thanks for that - that is interesting. I started a thread on here a few weeks ago recalling an old imdb discussion were someone was saying the walker numbers should start running out at some point, but didn't know that ratio!

Without expanding out into exact numbers (for simplicity), your ratio says every person has to kill 5,000 walkers.

So if all these survivors managed to hole up in walled communities and defensively took out one walker per person per day, that's going to take 5000/365 = 13.7 years before they're all gone! And that's before even looking at any attrition rate for that initial 1 in 5,000 survivors...

Yes, people are still killing each other. And every time you go out to waste precious ammo taking down the endless hordes of undead there's a chance of things going south. In which case you lose people. Not worth it. If you had some helicopters and a big tinder dry forest well away from any large settlements, it might be worth setting a forest fire and using the choppers to herd a few million walkers into it. That would make a significant dent with very little risk to anyone. But if you live in a walled community and don't happen to have a fleet of aircraft and a supply of aviation fuel the best thing to do is stay put until the walkers rot away on their own.