Agreed

@beith1 said:

he would have been a good fighter

Yeah, but he's basically the Kingdom's version of Rosita. A guy who goes off half cocked and does things that get people killed. Trust is the foundation of any relationship. And you can't trust someone who's deceitful and undermines you, even if he thinks he's doing you a favor. And there's no way Ezekiel could ever forgive Richard for Benjamin. That pretty much poisoned things between them forever. Had he lived, I think he would've been banished from the Kingdom.

@chrisjdel said:

@beith1 said:

he would have been a good fighter

Yeah, but he's basically the Kingdom's version of Rosita. A guy who goes off half cocked and does things that get people killed. Trust is the foundation of any relationship. And you can't trust someone who's deceitful and undermines you, even if he thinks he's doing you a favor. And there's no way Ezekiel could ever forgive Richard for Benjamin. That pretty much poisoned things between them forever. Had he lived, I think he would've been banished from the Kingdom.

Agreed. Sounds like Richard had a lot of guilt about his wife and daughter. Like he said, "He didn't do anything." Morgan has the same guilt. He couldn't kill his walker wife and since he didn't do anything his son died. Richard seems like a nice level-headed guy and he thought things out but he was too busy trying to cause an uneeded fight with Saviors early on. Let's face it. The Kingdom has the nicest Saviors to pick up the stash except the jerk that shot Benjamin. I am sure that's the first one Morgan will go after especially since he had to walk back. You are right on the "doing a favor" regarding Richard. His favor was something the Kingdom clearly stated they didn't want. He was willing to let people die when they didn't need to. If Richard would have waited then eventually Ezekiel would have seen that they have to fight the Saviors.

@Hawkychico-1 said:

@chrisjdel said:

@beith1 said:

he would have been a good fighter

Yeah, but he's basically the Kingdom's version of Rosita. A guy who goes off half cocked and does things that get people killed. Trust is the foundation of any relationship. And you can't trust someone who's deceitful and undermines you, even if he thinks he's doing you a favor. And there's no way Ezekiel could ever forgive Richard for Benjamin. That pretty much poisoned things between them forever. Had he lived, I think he would've been banished from the Kingdom.

Agreed. Sounds like Richard had a lot of guilt about his wife and daughter. Like he said, "He didn't do anything." Morgan has the same guilt. He couldn't kill his walker wife and since he didn't do anything his son died. Richard seems like a nice level-headed guy and he thought things out but he was too busy trying to cause an uneeded fight with Saviors early on. Let's face it. The Kingdom has the nicest Saviors to pick up the stash except the jerk that shot Benjamin. I am sure that's the first one Morgan will go after especially since he had to walk back. You are right on the "doing a favor" regarding Richard. His favor was something the Kingdom clearly stated they didn't want. He was willing to let people die when they didn't need to. If Richard would have waited then eventually Ezekiel would have seen that they have to fight the Saviors.

Ezekiel wouldn't have "eventually seen they have to fight the saviors" at all. He would've waited until someone else got killed by them. That's the truth. What else could've convinced him if not the death of one of his own?

While I do agree Richard's method wasn't good, at least Ezekiel opened his eyes, something he wouldn't have done had the kid survived. Ironic, but that's just how it is.

how are the people of the kingdom going to feel when ezekiel tells them he's been lying to them about the saviors? richard knew something needed to be done and ezekiel wasn't listening. he was willing to sacrifice his life but it didn't go as planned. he switched to plan b which, i wonder, would have meant killing morgan before he could tell what richard did?

@beith1 said:

how are the people of the kingdom going to feel when ezekiel tells them he's been lying to them about the saviors? richard knew something needed to be done and ezekiel wasn't listening. he was willing to sacrifice his life but it didn't go as planned. he switched to plan b which, i wonder, would have meant killing morgan before he could tell what richard did?

You mean Richard would've killed Morgan? Why?

so no one would know that he got the kid killed. once richard told everyone, i'm pretty sure they wouldn't let him stay.

@beith1 said:

he would have been a good fighter

I agree. But now, they have Carol! Ms. Rambo!!!!

Morgan needs to die, and soon.

But in a way killing him DID provide what he was after.

By killing him and making the claims he did, Morgan did regain the Saviors' trust like Richard wanted and now they're in a position where the Kingdom and co. can attack an unsuspecting enemy.

Richard was willing to die to provide the Kingdom for a reason to fight, and he was unstable. Morgan was a shit for doing it, especially this way, but he still did what Richard was after... I wonder if they might not even have planned it together. Who was it that didn't want to wait until after they returned to "talk about it" and demanded that it be done "now" ? What did they talk about ?

@velvet_roses said:

But in a way killing him DID provide what he was after.

By killing him and making the claims he did, Morgan did regain the Saviors' trust like Richard wanted and now they're in a position where the Kingdom and co. can attack an unsuspecting enemy.

Richard was willing to die to provide the Kingdom for a reason to fight, and he was unstable. Morgan was a shit for doing it, especially this way, but he still did what Richard was after... I wonder if they might not even have planned it together. Who was it that didn't want to wait until after they returned to "talk about it" and demanded that it be done "now" ? What did they talk about ?

I thought this was one of the better scenes in this episode. If you notice, Morgan uses the exact words Richard said he wanted used to rebuild trust with the Saviors. Only he used them on Richard instead of Ben.

I definitely don't think Richard had a clue, and I kinda believe in some ways Richard was a coward...talking a big game but only getting others hurt. Morgan took him at his word, balanced the scales, and moved the mission forward. When Morgan asked Richard about telling others, I think he was just seeing if he kept his word or not.

@Daddie0 said:

@velvet_roses said:

But in a way killing him DID provide what he was after.

By killing him and making the claims he did, Morgan did regain the Saviors' trust like Richard wanted and now they're in a position where the Kingdom and co. can attack an unsuspecting enemy.

Richard was willing to die to provide the Kingdom for a reason to fight, and he was unstable. Morgan was a shit for doing it, especially this way, but he still did what Richard was after... I wonder if they might not even have planned it together. Who was it that didn't want to wait until after they returned to "talk about it" and demanded that it be done "now" ? What did they talk about ?

I thought this was one of the better scenes in this episode. If you notice, Morgan uses the exact words Richard said he wanted used to rebuild trust with the Saviors. Only he used them on Richard instead of Ben.

I definitely don't think Richard had a clue, and I kinda believe in some ways Richard was a coward...talking a big game but only getting others hurt. Morgan took him at his word, balanced the scales, and moved the mission forward. When Morgan asked Richard about telling others, I think he was just seeing if he kept his word or not.

He wanted to see if Richard went to Ezekiel, like he said he would, and told him everything. Of course not. Afterward. In other words once his setup was complete, and he could argue that what's done is done - but he has a plan that will make Benjamin's sacrifice mean something. He's still trying to manipulate others and play God. I think that got under Morgan's skin and set him off; but as you pointed out, he wasn't so lost in his own rage that he didn't remember Richard's great little speech from the night before, and repeat it practically verbatim to Gavin.