"cersei isnt stupid enough to have arya executed, sure she might arrange for her to die but she wouldnt execute her"

Joffrey would have stupid enough, and several might have arranged an accident, including Littlefinger.

My point is I don't think Arya could have survived two years at the court.

@CharlesTheBold said:

I don't think either girl could have survived in the other's circumstances. Sansa wandering the countryside at wartime couldn't cover up the fact that she was a "lady" and would probably have attracted vicious kidnappers or rapists, against whom she did not know how to defend herself . Arya at court would have eventually rebelled ( as she did at the Faceless Men Temple) and would have been executed by Joffrey or Cersei.

That's right. I bet at the first opportunity, Arya would have grabbed some weapon and tried to kill Joffrey or Cersei, and got herself killed. Cersei didn't exactly stop Joffrey from killing Ned, so why would she prevent killing Arya?

@Strawberry Shortcake said:

@CharlesTheBold said:

I don't think either girl could have survived in the other's circumstances. Sansa wandering the countryside at wartime couldn't cover up the fact that she was a "lady" and would probably have attracted vicious kidnappers or rapists, against whom she did not know how to defend herself . Arya at court would have eventually rebelled ( as she did at the Faceless Men Temple) and would have been executed by Joffrey or Cersei.

That's right. I bet at the first opportunity, Arya would have grabbed some weapon and tried to kill Joffrey or Cersei, and got herself killed. Cersei didn't exactly stop Joffrey from killing Ned, so why would she prevent killing Arya?

Arya has a ferociousness to her and a mental drive to do every and anything to either escape or slit the throat of either Joffrey and or Cersei, even if it meant to die trying . Not too many young girls have the stones to equal Arya's high drive and fierce defense, actually I doubt ANY other girl in Westeros could ever have outmatched Arya's drive. I know this is my opinion, but the previous statements I truly believe to be fact.

Sansa on the other hand was a victim, she was very ladylike in general before she was help captive, she was very vulnerable, soft to the cruelties of life and very young and was in absolutely NO POSITION to make a move on anyone, I'm sure she was living in a mental hell, rarely slept at night and let's not forget the twisted, extremely perverted, horrible sh!t that that bastard Ramsey subjected her to. They developed Ramsey's character in extreme detail, making sure we knew that there was NOTHING that he was incapable of doing to another human being and we saw how much he so enjoyed the horrible, torturous acts that he constantly inflicted upon those around him. So they didn't need to show us what he did to Sansa, we could easily imagine how bad her experience was there. The scenes of Ramsey releasing his starved killer hounds to kill and eat someone alive certainly kept her from thinking of escape, until she and Theon made that jump(the magical suicide attempt🤔) off the castle wall.

So in closing I have to agree with @CharlesTheBold , that had their positions been switched things would have most likely went badly, either one or both of the sisters would be dead by now.

That scene where Sansa tore Littlefinger apart with the words of his treason, upon treason, upon treasonous acts and Arya swiftly slitting his throat could not have been played better, the writer did something correctly before that dragon "melted" the entire wall? It made no sense to me how that 1,000' wall was entirely made of ice apparently 😞.

margery was pretty badass too

@Xsploit said:

margery was pretty badass too

Yea I quite liked her, she's gorgeous and conniving. I was very sad to see her go.

@cswood said:

@PANDJY said:

@lmao7 said:

Yes. Thought Arya was smarter than to be played by Littlefinger so it's a bit disappointing to see her act out some psycho sister complex (like Marcia Marcia lol) like just focus on your list or train Podrick or something. Obv Bran knows what's going on, is he just watching like us?

They both went through hell to get where they are now. This would be resolved if the sisters have a slumber party (invite Brienne too) so I'm really hoping this will backfire to Littlefinger or turn into something interesting. Plus that bag with the faces, how silly looking to keep it that way...removes the mystery & wow element.

I think Bran is, for lack of a better phrase, honor bound to not get involved. after all - what ever happens is supposed to happen he cant change that.

Don't get me wrong - I love Arya and I am so glad to see her home and mostly no one but ... she has always been a bit too judgey and not able to see another's side. I think it is unfair of her to be angry with the child that Sansa was and I am real annoyed that she hasn't figured Little Finger out.

I finished rewatching the entire series up to season 7 just before the finale and I have to say that I still found Sansa to be pretty hateable up until Battle of the Bastards. Compared to Arya, Sansa just comes off as a much weaker character, almost no attempt from her to try and escape her situation or fight back, just lets Littelfinger do whatever he wants.

I think the whole "Sansa was a child" argument doesn't hold up because Arya was a younger child and arguably had a much harder up-hill journey to climb and was way more active in her story arc.

From Arya's perspective, she's been constantly on the run, imprisoned, didn't get a new change of clothes for like 3 seasons, was nearly killed on several occasions not including her encounter with the Waif who beat her ass multiple times and stabbed her, meanwhile Sansa's been taken pretty good care of save for her stay with Ramsey Bolton, which was horrible don't get me wrong, but she was never under threat of death or of being starved.

They could have made a whole separate show out of Arya's journey while Sansa's journey wouldn't have be interesting enough for a made for tv movie. I kept expecting Sansa to learn from those around her and start manipulating people and "playing the game" given she had Tyrion and Littlefinger as teaches, but she was kind of an idiot so that didn't happen until around season 6-7 and even then she's doing the bare minimum.

So this is a contest about which sister suffered the most? I think Sansa suffered just as much. She was beaten and raped repeatedly.

@rarebreed said:

So this is a contest about which sister suffered the most? I think Sansa suffered just as much. She was beaten and raped repeatedly.

It was never a "contest", It was a rational discussion, a discussion that weighed both sides heavily in depth by many of us numerous fellow TMDB users and the end result was just that, they both suffered terribly in positions in which only they each had the ability to survive. There are no winners or losers in that, just horrible experiences and strife that BOTH sisters managed to rise above in the end. In the last episode it seemed clear that they both realized that they both went through hell, different hells, but they both realized that and got over it to band together to kill that prick Littlefinger. Rational thought prevailed and I was glad to see them start the healing process between them. After that last scene they can't afford ANY petty infighting/squabbling over ANYTHING other than how to kill the WW'ers and the Night King.

Arya sees the world very much in black and white terms. It has worked for her so far, but I don't know going forward. Sansa has come to see that everything is a shade of gray. She has had to learn to navigate the world that way in order to survive. If one of them does not survive the series I think it will be Arya.

@jonnieblack said:

Arya sees the world very much in black and white terms. It has worked for her so far, but I don't know going forward. Sansa has come to see that everything is a shade of gray. She has had to learn to navigate the world that way in order to survive. If one of them does not survive the series I think it will be Arya.

Arya is very narrow minded which will get her in trouble eventually. While she was killing and avenging she was completely out of the loop of everything else going down in the whole of Westeros, ignorance will get you killed and she won't even see it coming if she doesn't learn to keep up on ALL of the events happening around her regardless of who her target is. Her secret is also out now, how far the news may travel and whomever hears of it may make her a target of great or at least extra importance.

@jonnieblack said:

Arya sees the world very much in black and white terms. It has worked for her so far, but I don't know going forward. Sansa has come to see that everything is a shade of gray. She has had to learn to navigate the world that way in order to survive. If one of them does not survive the series I think it will be Arya.

I don't see how you could think this. Arya taking The Hound off her list was a much bigger example of her seeing shades of grey than anything Sansa's ever done. Arya has been making life and death decisions since the first season and has single handedly effected more change in the lives of other characters.

What exactly are Sansa'a accomplishments? I mean seriously, what has she done that would convince you she sees "shades of grey"? And even if that were true, how has she used that skill to effect change in the story? Outside of working with Littlefinger during Battle of the Bastards and then sentencing Littlefinger to death, she could have been in a coma for most of the story without anything changing.

The only real success Sansa has had is bringing Arya's story to a screeching halt in the 7th season.

"What exactly are Sansa'a accomplishments?"

She started a project of storing food in case it grows scarce during the winter or the war against the zombies. No other ruler has apparently thought of it. She has kept a restive crowd of feudal noblemen under control via diplomacy while the king (Jon) is away -- something her father failed to do under King Robert. These are quiet, undramatic accomplishments, but they are important if her realm is to survive.

As for Arya, I think the operative word is "paranoid". Meeting the friendly soldiers, she glanced over at their weaponry in case things turned violent. When meeting an old friend (Hotpie) she dodged conversation until she realized that Hotpie had useful news. At Winterfell, Littlefinger was able to play on her suspicions of Sansa for a while.

I don't think Arya's story has come to a screeching halt. It can go two directions. Either her assassin skills prove useful in the upcoming war, or she can try to work free of her paranoia, wrestle with her conscience, and try to live a more normal life.

@CharlesTheBold said:

"What exactly are Sansa'a accomplishments?"

She started a project of storing food in case it grows scarce during the winter or the war against the zombies. No other ruler has apparently thought of it. She has kept a restive crowd of feudal noblemen under control via diplomacy while the king (Jon) is away -- something her father failed to do under King Robert. These are quiet, undramatic accomplishments, but they are important if her realm is to survive.

As for Arya, I think the operative word is "paranoid". Meeting the friendly soldiers, she glanced over at their weaponry in case things turned violent. When meeting an old friend (Hotpie) she dodged conversation until she realized that Hotpie had useful news. At Winterfell, Littlefinger was able to play on her suspicions of Sansa for a while.

I don't think Arya's story has come to a screeching halt. It can go two directions. Either her assassin skills prove useful in the upcoming war, or she can try to work free of her paranoia, wrestle with her conscience, and try to live a more normal life.

Nice post, her story and her biggest move is YET to come IMO(The Frey's massacre was nice revenge, but it had little overall story impact). Definitely no screeching halt to her story, that 's just nuts. Arya will do something big in our final season, something very memorable and something that I believe she will do with her OWN FACE just as she "dispatched" Littlefinger. Of course a face may still be very useful to get to her access to her target should she decide to pursue Cersei. The Mountain is on her list too I believe, I'd love to see that fight go down, then see her take his face and return to Cersei as him. That would be my perfect ending for Cersei.

I keep hearing of the prophecy that Cirsei will be killed by a brother. Does anybody remember how that was phrased? In lots of fantasies the prophecy is a trick. for example, in LOTR: "No man will kill him" = "A woman will kill him". In Macbeth, "No man of woman born will kill Macbeth" = "Macbeth's killer was born by Caesarean section". I bet Cersei's prophecy will turn out to be a trick.

@cswood said:

@jonnieblack said:

Arya sees the world very much in black and white terms. It has worked for her so far, but I don't know going forward. Sansa has come to see that everything is a shade of gray. She has had to learn to navigate the world that way in order to survive. If one of them does not survive the series I think it will be Arya.

I don't see how you could think this. Arya taking The Hound off her list was a much bigger example of her seeing shades of grey than anything Sansa's ever done. Arya has been making life and death decisions since the first season and has single handedly effected more change in the lives of other characters.

What exactly are Sansa'a accomplishments? I mean seriously, what has she done that would convince you she sees "shades of grey"? And even if that were true, how has she used that skill to effect change in the story? Outside of working with Littlefinger during Battle of the Bastards and then sentencing Littlefinger to death, she could have been in a coma for most of the story without anything changing.

The only real success Sansa has had is bringing Arya's story to a screeching halt in the 7th season.

Arya took the Hound off her list because she left him to die after the epic fight with Brienne. It had nothing to do with shades of gray. While you are correct that she has made life and death decisions, she has done so for personal reasons. She has no "social game." That is why I think her long term outlook is not as good as Sansa's.

@jonnieblack said:

Arya took the Hound off her list because she left him to die after the epic fight with Brienne. It had nothing to do with shades of gray. While you are correct that she has made life and death decisions, she has done so for personal reasons. She has no "social game." That is why I think her long term outlook is not as good as Sansa's.

When Arya's being trained by the faceless men she's hit every time she tells a lie. When she says she hated The Hound and wanted to kill him she is hit, because she was lying. The subtext is that she grew to appreciate him. Although I felt it was obvious she "left him to die" because she no longer wanted to kill him and in fact didn't have the heart to kill him, and she took his money as a callback to when The Hound took goods from people he determined were going to die and didn't need it.