@movie_nazi said:

@jonnieblack said:

Good points about Jamie, he is the most difficult character to pin down. I really WANT to believe he is a good guy deep down, but there is always the Bran thing. Most one sided villain definitely Joffrey. So one note, a weak link on the show. Ramsey, while equally villainous was a great character.

You also have The Hound that besides being wonderfully entertaining, was also first introduced as a scumbag and turns out to be a pretty good guy.

Another good example.

@movie_nazi said:

@jonnieblack said:

Good points about Jamie, he is the most difficult character to pin down. I really WANT to believe he is a good guy deep down, but there is always the Bran thing. Most one sided villain definitely Joffrey. So one note, a weak link on the show. Ramsey, while equally villainous was a great character.

You also have The Hound that besides being wonderfully entertaining, was also first introduced as a scumbag and turns out to be a pretty good guy.

I like the Hound, but I'd never describe him as a good guy. What has he ever done that is good?

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

@jonnieblack said:

Good points about Jamie, he is the most difficult character to pin down. I really WANT to believe he is a good guy deep down, but there is always the Bran thing. Most one sided villain definitely Joffrey. So one note, a weak link on the show. Ramsey, while equally villainous was a great character.

You also have The Hound that besides being wonderfully entertaining, was also first introduced as a scumbag and turns out to be a pretty good guy.

I like the Hound, but I'd never describe him as a good guy. What has he ever done that is good?

Protected Arya

@Heisenberg12 said:

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

@jonnieblack said:

Good points about Jamie, he is the most difficult character to pin down. I really WANT to believe he is a good guy deep down, but there is always the Bran thing. Most one sided villain definitely Joffrey. So one note, a weak link on the show. Ramsey, while equally villainous was a great character.

You also have The Hound that besides being wonderfully entertaining, was also first introduced as a scumbag and turns out to be a pretty good guy.

I like the Hound, but I'd never describe him as a good guy. What has he ever done that is good?

Protected Arya

And saved Sansa from being brutally raped.

The Hound has a soft spot for the underdog it seems. Probably because of his brother.

@movie_nazi said:

Protected Arya

And saved Sansa from being brutally raped.

Yes, but not because he was a good guy; he was attracted to Sansa, and he hoped to sell Arya to her Aunt Lysa for a substantial reward.

@movie_nazi said:

@ana catarina fontes said:

no way. arya will end cersei.

The prophecy that has haunted Cersei her entire life stated that her brother would end her life. Since she treated Tyrion with such disdain she always assumed it would be he however, it's pretty obvious that it will be Jamie making him both a Kingslayer and a Queenslayer. He will probably take his own life afterwards.

Well, the term Valonqar really means younger sibling. It doesn't specifically state "WHOSE SIBLING" likewise, it's a gender neutral term. It's become a bit of a preemptive "Who shot JR" situation as to the number of qualifying characters and their motives for killing Cersei.

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

Protected Arya

And saved Sansa from being brutally raped.

Yes, but not because he was a good guy; he was attracted to Sansa, and he hoped to sell Arya to her Aunt Lysa for a substantial reward.

Wha'? Where do you get this from? You think he actually thought he had a shot with Sansa? Please. If you mean that the only reason he did something good for her was because he found her attractive well, welcome to humanity 101. The point is he didn't have to save her but did. The Hound also saved the Tyrell boy from being massacred by the Mountain. I guess he was just attracted to him too, huh?

@movie_nazi said:

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

Protected Arya

And saved Sansa from being brutally raped.

Yes, but not because he was a good guy; he was attracted to Sansa, and he hoped to sell Arya to her Aunt Lysa for a substantial reward.

Wha'? Where do you get this from? You think he actually thought he had a shot with Sansa? Please. If you mean that the only reason he did something good for her was because he found her attractive well, welcome to humanity 101. The point is he didn't have to save her but did. The Hound also saved the Tyrell boy from being massacred by the Mountain. I guess he was just attracted to him too, huh?

I don't normally like to use the books as examples, but the first two seasons followed pretty close and Sandor does show an attraction to her. In the series he claims he should have raped her so there's that but that may have just been trying to get arya to kill him.

It's a tough call to how he viewed Sansa. I still subscribe that, whether he felt an attraction to her or not (what straight man wouldnt?) he also did it because it was the right thing to do. And definitely the opposite of what his brother would have done.

@movie_nazi said:

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

Protected Arya

And saved Sansa from being brutally raped.

Yes, but not because he was a good guy; he was attracted to Sansa, and he hoped to sell Arya to her Aunt Lysa for a substantial reward.

Wha'? Where do you get this from? You think he actually thought he had a shot with Sansa? Please. If you mean that the only reason he did something good for her was because he found her attractive well, welcome to humanity 101. The point is he didn't have to save her but did. The Hound also saved the Tyrell boy from being massacred by the Mountain. I guess he was just attracted to him too, huh?

I get it from the books; it's pretty clear how he felt about Sansa. He didn't think he had a shot, he intended to rape her. He couldn't care less about Loras Tyrell; he just wanted to have an excuse to strike at his hated brother. In a way he is a sympathetic character, but I wouldn't call him a good guy.

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

Protected Arya

And saved Sansa from being brutally raped.

Yes, but not because he was a good guy; he was attracted to Sansa, and he hoped to sell Arya to her Aunt Lysa for a substantial reward.

Wha'? Where do you get this from? You think he actually thought he had a shot with Sansa? Please. If you mean that the only reason he did something good for her was because he found her attractive well, welcome to humanity 101. The point is he didn't have to save her but did. The Hound also saved the Tyrell boy from being massacred by the Mountain. I guess he was just attracted to him too, huh?

I get it from the books; it's pretty clear how he felt about Sansa. He didn't think he had a shot, he intended to rape her. He couldn't care less about Loras Tyrell; he just wanted to have an excuse to strike at his hated brother. In a way he is a sympathetic character, but I wouldn't call him a good guy.

Everything you have presented has been simply conjecture. I have read the books as well and there is nothing in there that states he was in love with Sansa nor is there anything in there that states he jumped into the fight between Loras and the Mountain because he "wanted an excuse to strike his brother." You are pulling all of this out of your ass. But that's fine. You can enjoy Mirabel's GOT reboot in your head as you wish.

Besides books are books and TV show is TV show and there is even less shown in the show to back up your ridiculous statements.

Before this gets out of hand, can we kindly return to the point of the post and move the hounds ambiguity to another thread?

@movie_nazi said:

Everything you have presented has been simply conjecture. I have read the books as well and there is nothing in there that states he was in love with Sansa nor is there anything in there that states he jumped into the fight between Loras and the Mountain because he "wanted an excuse to strike his brother." You are pulling all of this out of your ass. But that's fine. You can enjoy Mirabel's GOT reboot in your head as you wish.

Besides books are books and TV show is TV show and there is even less shown in the show to back up your ridiculous statements.

Nothing in the books?

Did you miss the whole "Little Bird" segment? Where the Hound comes to Sansa's room and makes her sing to him? Where he tells her that if she came with him, away from King's Landing, that no one would ever hurt her again because he'd kill anyone who tried?

Did you miss the part where he said he might get to kill his brother?

But whether you agree or not, it is possible to say so politely. No need to be rude.

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

Everything you have presented has been simply conjecture. I have read the books as well and there is nothing in there that states he was in love with Sansa nor is there anything in there that states he jumped into the fight between Loras and the Mountain because he "wanted an excuse to strike his brother." You are pulling all of this out of your ass. But that's fine. You can enjoy Mirabel's GOT reboot in your head as you wish.

Besides books are books and TV show is TV show and there is even less shown in the show to back up your ridiculous statements.

Nothing in the books?

Did you miss the whole "Little Bird" segment? Where the Hound comes to Sansa's room and makes her sing to him? Where he tells her that if she came with him, away from King's Landing, that no one would ever hurt her again because he'd kill anyone who tried?

Did you miss the part where he said he might get to kill his brother?

But whether you agree or not, it is possible to say so politely. No need to be rude.

It's still in your head. You haven't presented anything that backs up your fantasy within a fantasy story (definitely gotta come up with a name for that). By all means, indulge.

@movie_nazi said:

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

Everything you have presented has been simply conjecture. I have read the books as well and there is nothing in there that states he was in love with Sansa nor is there anything in there that states he jumped into the fight between Loras and the Mountain because he "wanted an excuse to strike his brother." You are pulling all of this out of your ass. But that's fine. You can enjoy Mirabel's GOT reboot in your head as you wish.

Besides books are books and TV show is TV show and there is even less shown in the show to back up your ridiculous statements.

Nothing in the books?

Did you miss the whole "Little Bird" segment? Where the Hound comes to Sansa's room and makes her sing to him? Where he tells her that if she came with him, away from King's Landing, that no one would ever hurt her again because he'd kill anyone who tried?

Did you miss the part where he said he might get to kill his brother?

But whether you agree or not, it is possible to say so politely. No need to be rude.

It's still in your head. You haven't presented anything that backs up your fantasy within a fantasy story (definitely gotta come up with a name for that). By all means, indulge.

Guys. Please. Move this to another topic. I'll create one if you want to slug it out there.