@movie_nazi said:

@jonnieblack said:

OK now I have to go back and watch

We are mixing up the books with the show. I believe in the books it was indeed a necklace.

I think now it was the other way: snood in the book, necklace on the show.

@Mirabel said:

@movie_nazi said:

@jonnieblack said:

OK now I have to go back and watch

We are mixing up the books with the show. I believe in the books it was indeed a necklace.

I think now it was the other way: snood in the book, necklace on the show.

I don't read the books. I thought it was a necklace on the show and I think Baelish gave it to her. No time to check yesterday.

@jonnieblack said:

I don't read the books. I thought it was a necklace on the show and I think Baelish gave it to her. No time to check yesterday.

But why not? The books are excellent.

(Also, they supply a lot of background information).

@Mirabel said:

@jonnieblack said:

I don't read the books. I thought it was a necklace on the show and I think Baelish gave it to her. No time to check yesterday.

But why not? The books are excellent.

(Also, they supply a lot of background information).

Never heard of the books until the series began. I'm not generally a fan of fantasy fiction. I've only had HBO for a couple of years so just started watching the series at that time. I am in the middle of season 5, just watched the Ramsey/Sansa "wedding" episode. Great episode, but yuck. I didn't love the series either, probably until season 3. Season 1 Golden Crown convinced me to stay with it, and Jamie/Brienne bath scene in season 3 convinced me that it was worthy of being called the best show on TV.

Fantasy fiction can sometimes be a pain, mostly because the series never seems to end! There's one book after another; it can get discouraging.

But the Martin books are the exception, really fascinating, especially for the vivid characterization.

@lmao7 said:

That ending with Ollena, can't wait for Cersei to find out though maybe no more impact for her. And Jamie...sigh hope he wakes up and stops supporting Cersei

I'm really happy Jamie knows the truth. Can't wait until he tells Cersei. I want her to know it wasn't Tyrion.

She will probably think he was in on it with Olenna. She wants him to be guilty.

Too much fantasy fiction is imitation Tolkien. Martin mostly avoids that by keeping the supernatural at a distance aside from Danny's dragons. I think the best series to avoid Tolkien's influence is leGuin's "Wizard of EArthsea", though Syfy's adaptation was terrible.

@TheBayHarborButcher said:

@lmao7 said:

That ending with Ollena, can't wait for Cersei to find out though maybe no more impact for her. And Jamie...sigh hope he wakes up and stops supporting Cersei

I'm really happy Jamie knows the truth. Can't wait until he tells Cersei. I want her to know it wasn't Tyrion.

Even if Cersei finds out that Tyrion is innocent, that still doesn't excuse him for siding with her enemy Daenerys.

@CharlesTheBold said:

Too much fantasy fiction is imitation Tolkien. Martin mostly avoids that by keeping the supernatural at a distance aside from Danny's dragons. I think the best series to avoid Tolkien's influence is leGuin's "Wizard of EArthsea", though Syfy's adaptation was terrible.

Aside Dany's dragons and oh yeah, witches birthing demon shadows. Oh and uh bringing people back from the dead (sorry Christianity). Oh yeah and uh Bran and the 3-eyed Raven seeing everything that ever happened at once. Oh yeah and an Army of White Wal.... Well you get the point.

Is it the exact same supernatural as Tolkien? Nope, but very much as entrenched in the supernatural as Tolkien. Martin just injects it very slowly into the ongoing story and Dany's dragons are simply the first step into it. By the time you have progressed to the point of the story where we are at now, this has just as much supernatural if not more than Tolkien's stories. This one just has boobies in.

@movie_nazi said:

@CharlesTheBold said:

Too much fantasy fiction is imitation Tolkien. Martin mostly avoids that by keeping the supernatural at a distance aside from Danny's dragons. I think the best series to avoid Tolkien's influence is leGuin's "Wizard of EArthsea", though Syfy's adaptation was terrible.

Aside Dany's dragons and oh yeah, witches birthing demon shadows. Oh and uh bringing people back from the dead (sorry Christianity). Oh yeah and uh Bran and the 3-eyed Raven seeing everything that ever happened at once. Oh yeah and an Army or White Wal.... Well you get the point.

Is it the exact same supernatural as Tolkien? Nope, but very much as entrenched in the supernatural as Tolkien. Martin just injects it very slowly into the ongoing story and Dany's dragons are simply the first step into it. By the time you have progressed to the point of the story where we are at now, this has just as much supernatural if not more than Tolkien's stories. This one just has boobies in.

Yes, there is a lot of fantastic elements in GoT. The thing is, as you put it, Martin introduces these elements slowly and at a certain point you become so immersed in the story that you don't even realize there are a lot of fantastic (i.e. supernatural) elements apart from the most obvious ones (dragons + walkers). I often find myself describing GoT like this, then I recall all those other elements you mentioned.

@ana catarina fontes said:

Yes, there is a lot of fantastic elements in GoT. The thing is, as you put it, Martin introduces these elements slowly and at a certain point you become so immersed in the story that you don't even realize there are a lot of fantastic (i.e. supernatural) elements apart from the most obvious ones (dragons + walkers). I often find myself describing GoT like this, then I recall all those other elements you mentioned.

Another thing that Martin does brilliantly and what is now quickly becoming a Hollywood trope is the human characterization of the characters (redundant much? ). You have good people doing awful things and vice versa. Much removed from the played out Good vs. Evil where you basically have Clark Kent goodie two shoes vs. the ultimate evil who does evil cuz he likes it. People are NOT like that for the most part. We make mistakes and sometimes are motivations are selfish and other times they are noble. Your introduction to Jamie Lannister is that he is a degenerate that bangs his own sister and throws little boys off towers. Who would have guessed once you got to know the character he turns out to not be such a bad guy? Yes, he did some awful things and made bad choices but deep down he really is a good guy. This is Martin's strong point and the brilliance of his writing which really sucks you in and before you know it there are dragons, witches, grumkins and snarks (shout out to Tyrion, hey-oh!) all over the place and then you are reminding yourself that you hate all this fantasy BS.

@movie_nazi said:

@ana catarina fontes said:

Yes, there is a lot of fantastic elements in GoT. The thing is, as you put it, Martin introduces these elements slowly and at a certain point you become so immersed in the story that you don't even realize there are a lot of fantastic (i.e. supernatural) elements apart from the most obvious ones (dragons + walkers). I often find myself describing GoT like this, then I recall all those other elements you mentioned.

Another thing that Martin does brilliantly and what is now quickly becoming a Hollywood trope is the human characterization of the characters (redundant much? ). You have good people doing awful things and vice versa. Much removed from the played out Good vs. Evil where you basically have Clark Kent goodie two shoes vs. the ultimate evil who does evil cuz he likes it. People are NOT like that for the most part. We make mistakes and sometimes are motivations are selfish and other times they are noble. Your introduction to Jamie Lannister is that he is a degenerate that bangs his own sister and throws little boys off towers. Who would have guessed once you got to know the character he turns out to not be such a bad guy? Yes, he did some awful things and made bad choices but deep down he really is a good guy. This is Martin's strong point and the brilliance of his writing which really sucks you in and before you know it there are dragons, witches, grumkins and snarks (shout out to Tyrion, hey-oh!) all over the place and then you are reminding yourself that you hate all this fantasy BS.

The fact that the good and evil are not dichotomic concepts in GoT universe is definitely one of the most captivating aspects of it (although there are some really mean characters). Jamie is the best example of this, as you mentioned. He's kind of GoT's Snape lol though Snape was not in a sick incestuous relationship with an evil sister.

Good points about Jamie, he is the most difficult character to pin down. I really WANT to believe he is a good guy deep down, but there is always the Bran thing. Most one sided villain definitely Joffrey. So one note, a weak link on the show. Ramsey, while equally villainous was a great character.

@jonnieblack said:

Good points about Jamie, he is the most difficult character to pin down. I really WANT to believe he is a good guy deep down, but there is always the Bran thing. Most one sided villain definitely Joffrey. So one note, a weak link on the show. Ramsey, while equally villainous was a great character.

You also have The Hound that besides being wonderfully entertaining, was also first introduced as a scumbag and turns out to be a pretty good guy.