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I'm having problems with two fields (so far) within the movie records. Mostly related to definitions I think.
posted by Joe RoseSTAFFMOD on June 11, 2015 at 1:40 PM
Hi, To whom it may concern (Travis?);
I'm having problems with two fields (so far) within the movie records. Mostly related to definitions I think.
- I have been assuming that "Original Language" is:
Likely, but not necessarily, the soul spoken language, a country language in which a movie is produced, and a country language of primary release. (None of these to do with "translations" btw) I.E. "A fist full of dollars" was primarily (and first) released in Italy, Their official and most used language is Italian. The movie was subsequently released in other countries and languages of which I can only assume they would not then be considered as "Original Language" choices. If a singular spoken language and/or primary release country and/or definitive production country is/are not available then an original language should be further researched via other sources (i.e. IMDB, Wikipedia, etc.) or might not be determined thus requiring a "nothing" entry until the former items are defined. Is this correct and if not, what is the exact criteria for "Original Language?
FYI: I have been changing "original language" based on a initial review list filtering:
Moderators have declared movies correct in their choice of original language and locked the entry. If my evaluation is correct then changes should be make, if mine is wrong then I need to know by what criteria/standards they are evaluating original language.
- What is a "Video"?
I was instructed by the (pop-up all the time) that "Video" applied ONLY if the record is a "actually a movie". The term "Movie" as defined by Wikipedia is stated as ambiguous at best. This leaves one with a problem. I would define a movie as something I would see; only in a theater, has actors playing roles, a plot, and is not of special interest such as; a documentary video, music-documentary video, music video, concert video, how-to or instructional video, exercise video, sports video, and certainly anything in these categories with was released on DVD/CD only. Because "Genres" does not cover all these categories (which may be rightfully so) I have been using what can be found in the "Overview", when available, to attempt a determination of what is a video and what is not. This clearly is not clear. Subsequently, some records with I changed (via the WEB form) have been reversed by a moderator then the item "locked'. So I have been miss guided as to what is a video and what is not, or your moderators are not using the same or any of standards which I or others might apply. I am now ticked that my time may have been wasted writing code and editing records to no avail.
If I am to continue using your database as a usable/reliable movie data source and spend more of my time updating records I would very much appreciate a proper response to the above.
Regards; Joe Rose
Reply by lineker
on June 12, 2015 at 3:06 AM
Hi, I think we are still adjusting how to best set the Original Language field. For most entries it's really simple. An American movie produced in the US by an American production company would easily be set to English. However, the same movie made by a Swedish production company may be set to Swedish. That's how I try to reason with it.
I think you missed a "not" in there. Think all non-movie content. Let's use Gimme Shelter as an example as that one was incorrectly changed by you. This is a real movie, a music documentary which was released theatrically and was reviewed by critics as a movie. "Two concerts by Frank Sinatra on a double DVD" entry is not such a case and should be set to Video:true. The latest iTunes festival stream with artist x or y should also be set to video:true.
Going over your edits it looks like documentaries have been the problem. A tip would be to see if they have been screened at a film festival. If yes, don't change them.
Reply by Joe Rose
on June 12, 2015 at 11:32 AM
Thanks Lineker;
So if yours is the criteria upon which original language is decided then please explain why anyone could/would set and lock this field as English in "Fist full of Dollars" when the movie was Produced it Italy, First (Primary} release was 12 September 1964 in Italy and was NOT released in any English speaking country until Canada on 22 December 1966. It was NOT released in the USA until 18 January 1967. That's 2-3 years after it's release in Italy (An Italian speaking country if I'm not mistaken). Then released in:
West Germany 5 March 1965
Argentina 24 June 1965
Spain 27 September 1965
Japan 25 December 1965
France 16 March 1966
Sweden 14 July 1966
Portugal 21 October 1966 Denmark 7 November 1966
If original language is considered as one of the "dubbed" languages (which Travis tells me it is NOT) then what is going on? Who's setting the rules and who sees that they are applied? Perhaps a tooltip popup on the entry combobox with the following explanation:
"Original Language based on: 1. Primary Spoken Language, 2. Primary country of Production, 3. Primary Language of country of First Release. Please research carefully before setting/changing."
Some "tooltip" * popups on other entry fields to assist users would help too. Like the "Video" field? These could save a lot of these discussions and possibly prevent errors like I created with "Gimme Shelter", right? [* Ref: http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/htmltooltip.shtml]
I have always defined my data fields before building my database schemas so the input validation, sanitizing, user help, etc. was clear before any application coding and documentation commented. A glossary of terms and data elements in the web site's help section would be very useful to everybody in this regard. I am willing to assist, if you wish, to continue this discussion to a suitable conclusion to everyone's satisfaction and definitive explanations for each data element is established.
Regards;
Joe
Reply by lineker
on June 12, 2015 at 12:22 PM
Yes, some kind of extra help would be ideal. If Travis reads this I'm sure we will take notice. Also, I changed the original language for A Fistful of Dollars to Italian since that seemed to be the best fit. I forgot to address that it in my first reply.
The Video section was created as a way to be able to keep content that otherwise would have been deleted. Now, when it has been in place for a while, it has become more of a place to keep all non-movie content. I'm starting to think that perhaps all UFC and WWE entries should be tagged as videos as well. They are present as one of our notable exceptions for TV content withing the movie section, but I still think using the Video setting would make sense. If anyone has any comments about this, please reply.
Moreover, having checked some more of your Video edits, it's worth noting that we do allow TV-Movies and mini-series in the movie section which means TV-movie and mini-series documentaries should not be set to Video:true. Thanks for communicating!
Reply by Joe Rose
on June 12, 2015 at 2:33 PM
Great!
It's starting make sense! I agree with the UFC and WWE type items evaluation. So much so that I force them as videos (when detected) during my scrapes. I also ignore "Adult" content as these are of no interest to me (probably my age or something). I got the mini-series and TV-Movies info the other day and now evaluate them according (I hope).
Can we make a definitive short list of "video" as something like?:
I'm Curious; Travis, as I understand it, is the mastermind behind the whole operation though he appears to be VERY busy fighting numerous fires. Is he the sole policy maker, data content and methods analyst, development person on the project as well as the general fire fighter? Also; what are the various roles of moderators other that the obvious? I see they monitor the forums, can check data transactions, override locks. Is this about it? Is your group the best to have these general and/or preliminary discussions with so Travis can get on with the bigger picture?
Joe
Reply by lineker
on June 12, 2015 at 4:54 PM
Some quick feedback. Most concerts are best suited for the Video section. Still, there are some famous exceptions. 1 and 3 are 99-100 percent Video from my experience, but there will be a few exceptions so they have to be checked case by case.
I would say that most documentaries, regardless of platform, are proper movies.
For number 5 we have all the compilation entries (that you have identified correctly from what I have checked so far). Those entries were perhaps the main reason behind creating the Video section.
Yes. He will have to answer your more specific questions (I think he has answered them in the past when other users have asked).
We can also ban users and delete images, entries, and forum posts. Some of us also contact users when needed.
It depends. Sometimes we have internal discussions. At other times there is a public discussion where different moderators chime in.
Reply by Joe Rose
on June 12, 2015 at 9:13 PM
Linker;
Thanks for the above!
I was reviewing the online help section on editing movies. (No "Last Date of Revision on the pages" btw, Ouch!.) Nothing there covers any of our discussions.
May I please suggest that you (and the other moderates) write-up something that clearly covers "Video" and maybe "Original Language" also, so it can be added to the help section.
We might keep this discussion open for several days and see if anyone else has thoughts on the subject. They may come up with something we have not thought of.
Look forward to the process to improve the TMDB as a site and it's API operations.
Joe