Discuss Superman II
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This vs the Richard Donner cut
posted by movie_naziSTAFFMOD on June 18, 2025 at 10:26 AM
Although I did like most of the Richard Donner cut over this one, it was ruined by arguably the most controversial aspect of the first film which was the whole reversing time nonsense. I'm not sure what was the deal with why they completely changed Superman II from Donner's intention but if they were going to include yet ANOTHER reverse time sequence, then I totally understand why they scrapped it. I did like how the Donner cut did not include the ridiculous Eiffel Tower scene and simply used the nuclear war head that he dispatched into space from the first film as the catalyst for releasing of the Kryptonians. I think that flowed well.
I imagine the reverse time sequence was included because I guess they just couldn't live with the fact that Louis Lane knew Superman's identity? Like, who cares? This version's of the amnesiatic kiss is just as silly as the reverse time thing but more palatable IMO but the best choice would have been to just leave Louis as is. And I still don't even understand why they couldn't keep a relationship going. I'm guessing a sign of the times of when the film was made that you cannot be "living in sin" or some such nonsense. Not a good message for the kiddies I suppose.
I also noticed that the "let me know if this tickles" scene is absent from the Donner cut which is a shame cuz I always loved those scenes where the redneck assholes are put in their place. There are other scenes in the Donner cut that are superior to this version and overall if the Donner cut did NOT include reverse time and just left Louis alone AND included all of the redneck scenes, it would have been the superior version by a mile.
Reply by rooprect
on June 18, 2025 at 10:54 AM
So wait… you mean Donner’s way of handling Lois’s knowledge of Supe’s identity was another stupid time reversal? I would positively walk out. To me the time reversal bit in the 1st movie was the most ridiculous, laziest deus-ex-machina ever written. It should warrant its own category: dumbass-ex-machina. For Donner to use it twice and ruin the best film of the series would’ve been unforgivable.
Reply by movie_nazi
on June 18, 2025 at 11:35 AM
OMG! Its SO bad! 😆 The absolutely laziest writing. I'd rather they include Louis Lane temporarily gained super powers to save herself than that nonsense. Yes, its THAT bad. I do agree that this is the best Reeve Superman for sure and arguably the best Superman film to date, period. But I have a feeling after audiences hated the time reversal in the first film that they said, "Nuh uh, you gotta change that shit, Donner" . I just don't understand why they included that stupid Eiffel Tower scene though. Completely unnecessary. Having the nuke Superman threw into space from the first film was a perfectly plausible explanation.
Reply by movie_nazi
on June 18, 2025 at 11:51 AM
I found an articles that explains it better than me.
https://screenrant.com/superman-2-richard-donner-cut-differences-changes-explained/
It looks like the relationship with Donner and crew fell apart before the film was even completed but my god to include the same stupid ending again? That would have been outrageous. As silly as Richard Lester's version is in certain parts, I will take the forget kiss over that any day.
Reply by rooprect
on June 18, 2025 at 12:14 PM
forreal! When Superman spins the earth backwards, I remember thinking Ok that's like me moving a clock's hands backwards to go back in time! (Not to mention his way would probably wipe out all life on earth due to being suddenly wrenched 800mph in the opposite direction 😆)
I totally agree, the Eiffel Tower scene was unnecessary; it would've blended the first 2 movies much better if they'd used the original nuke in space as the reason why the villains were freed. Dunno why Lester needed to redo that (maybe just to assert his control as the new director?).
Superman II was really good, even just the theatrical cut. It had just the right blend of fantasy & reality to keep things fun yet believable. The villians were badass and Gene Hackman was at the top of his game. The love story wasn't just a sappy sideshow as it often is in action movies, because it's central to the plot. I even bought the idea of an amnesiac kiss although yea that was kinda stretching it. Still infinitely better than "lets just go back in time and undo all the sticky plot points!"
Update after reading the article you linked:
Wow I had no idea there was so much drama behind the scenes. I do recognize the producers' names (Alexander and Ilya Salkind) as being a duo you don't mess with. Apparently they were a pretty powerful force in cinema dating all the way back to early early days. If you were on good terms with them they'd give you total artistic freedom (like Orson Welles getting a blank check to make his masterpiece The Trial in 1962), but I guess if you get in their bad books... Look no further than this movie!
Interesting that Donner's version is much darker, cutting out a lot of the humorous bits. I kinda like the humor. In all superhero movies I think it's dangerous for the film to take itself too seriously. I mean, c'mon they're all born out of kids comic books so they should retain some of that childishness, right? That said, I'm still suddenly curious to see the Donner cut because, spinning earth notwithstanding, I loved his work on The Omen and the first two Lethal Weapon films.