The world isn't ready for the real Ghost as a live action. The level of complexity is almost impossible to capture on film without breaking barriers that in the end makes the audience shut down and the box offices close up.

@tlm550 said: It wasn't beautiful. It was ugly and pathetic. And it wasn't original at all.

Surely not original itself, indeed. That is impossible when it is telling someone else original work.

@diadara said:

The world isn't ready for the real Ghost as a live action. The level of complexity is almost impossible to capture on film without breaking barriers that in the end makes the audience shut down and the box offices close up.

Sadly you have a point. Though sometimes such chances do work.

Perhaps this was the hope here. Start with a more classic/typical story arch in this first iteration like they did to get some momentum and boxoffice, and then go full ghost in the second.... however, even this way was not right when we look at this ones box office.... I wish, the true storytellers and their produceres would be brave enough to go full from the beginning. I dare say, the World IS ready - just not in an opening weekend box office powwow kind of way. More as a slowly buildup kind of way.... you know, how movie success used to be measured?

@HAL 9010' said:

@diadara said:

The world isn't ready for the real Ghost as a live action. The level of complexity is almost impossible to capture on film without breaking barriers that in the end makes the audience shut down and the box offices close up.

Sadly you have a point. Though sometimes such chances do work.

Perhaps this was the hope here. Start with a more classic/typical story arch in this first iteration like they did to get some momentum and boxoffice, and then go full ghost in the second.... however, even this way was not right when we look at this ones box office.... I wish, the true storytellers and their produceres would be brave enough to go full from the beginning. I dare say, the World IS ready - just not in an opening weekend box office powwow kind of way. More as a slowly buildup kind of way.... you know, how movie success used to be measured?

Yes, like how The Architect appeared for the first time in Matrix Reloaded and everyone's mind was blown. The scene wasn't well received by many, but as is often the case, we tend to dislike what we don't understand.

@diadara said: Yes, like how The Architect appeared for the first time in Matrix Reloaded and everyone's mind was blown. The scene wasn't well received by many, but as is often the case, we tend to dislike what we don't understand.

Uhh, this is a dangerous one :) But I agree. Great as The Matrix was, the substance of the tale comes from the Architect and the Oracle. In my view the meat of this story is in the latter two and I love the whole franchise. Indeed the first movie was a masterpiece on many levels and better executed than the other two, but why I to this day still find it so interesting is found in Reloaded and Revolutions. And kudos to the producers. The first was a bit of a risk but essentially the story is clear and so loved. And because of its massiv success, the Wachowski Brothers (Sisters) could dare tell their true vision hereafter. Panned it was and is, but who cares? we got it :)

@tlm550 said:

@HAL 9010' said:

It wasn't beautiful. It was ugly and pathetic. And it wasn't original at all.

No. It was beautiful, awesome and original. See what I did?

@HAL 9010' said:

@diadara said:

The world isn't ready for the real Ghost as a live action. The level of complexity is almost impossible to capture on film without breaking barriers that in the end makes the audience shut down and the box offices close up.

Sadly you have a point. Though sometimes such chances do work.

Perhaps this was the hope here. Start with a more classic/typical story arch in this first iteration like they did to get some momentum and boxoffice, and then go full ghost in the second.... however, even this way was not right when we look at this ones box office.... I wish, the true storytellers and their produceres would be brave enough to go full from the beginning. I dare say, the World IS ready - just not in an opening weekend box office powwow kind of way. More as a slowly buildup kind of way.... you know, how movie success used to be measured?

You are right. Sadly though, the only thing that matters is money and these days the studios just won't take the risk.

@chilone said:

You are right. Sadly though, the only thing that matters is money and these days the studios just won't take the risk.

Yes, but did they have the foresight they could get their investments worth AND the master piece. In this case Ghost will not do well and a big part of it is that the movie lacks the spirite that the original story has. They went the safe way and lost. I believe if they had actually gone the right way and told the real story with all its complexity, we would have a success to day. Us fans would love, and the critics should also... and so the rest of the world. This movie is an example where the producers lacked the balls and went for the safer route. And this aversion to shine, was their downfall.

Deadpool went for the full retard and won. I wish the producers of Ghost would have realized why Deadpool was a success. & so i hope, future producers will look at theses two movies and realize the world is not dumb. The world is ready...

@chilone said:

@tlm550 said:

@HAL 9010' said:

It wasn't beautiful. It was ugly and pathetic. And it wasn't original at all.

No. It was beautiful, awesome and original. See what I did?

I'm proud of you.

@tlm550 said:

@chilone said:

@tlm550 said:

@HAL 9010' said:

It wasn't beautiful. It was ugly and pathetic. And it wasn't original at all.

No. It was beautiful, awesome and original. See what I did?

I'm proud of you.

I'm here to help ;)

@diadara said:

Yes, like how The Architect appeared for the first time in Matrix Reloaded and everyone's mind was blown. The scene wasn't well received by many, but as is often the case, we tend to dislike what we don't understand.

But a lot of people didn't like that scene because it was badly implemented. Not because they are averse to some complex philosophy. The scene is one long info-dump. It's badly written exposition. This information should have been blended naturally into the narrative. That's part of the craft of film.

What The Architect was articulating wasn't actually that hard to grasp, but the way the film conveyed it made it more complicated than it actually is.

I don't think having complex philosophies would have destroyed Ghost in the Shell's box office chances any more than the empty narrative we actually got. It would depend on how it's delivered. Rupert Sanders probably wasn't the right guy for the job.

So... You guys think they should have just filmed the cartoon? Just do a scene for scene live action remake?

@Renovatio said:

So... You guys think they should have just filmed the cartoon? Just do a scene for scene live action remake?

To an extent. I haven't seen the cartoon in a very long time but I do remember it being pretty complicated and philosophical.

This was just empty visuals.

@Renovatio said:

So... You guys think they should have just filmed the cartoon? Just do a scene for scene live action remake?

The cartoon is quite unique, and I dare say not as well-known as it deserves to be. A full live action version would push its core beauty to the larger audience. And yes, I would like to see this... but, you have a point: Just repeating what we already have, seem moot. A true skilled storyteller would take the story and universe and try and twist it into something more or similar. And obviously this is what they tried here. And I too applaud this. Sadly, the end result does not feel to quite reach the level they set out to meet. Their focus is the visuals. And in here they fail why the original is so cherished, I think. The original is cherished because of its visuals AND (and foremost) its philosophical thought provoking aspects... and the latter part they chose to play down. A shame. So, I suppose the shorter answer to your question is; No, not really. It would be interesting and lovely, but if they had succeeded in capturing the soul of the story in this current flick, that would have been my choice.. In the end I still think, they gave us a beautiful shell, but with no soul (or no ghost).

I deliberately did not watch the original anime before this, and I am not the biggest fan of it either, but I will definitely watch it. I enjoyed the film for what it was. The casting was excellent, the performances of Pilou Asbæk and Michael Pitt, in particular, were great. Takeshi Kitano and Juliette Binoche also did a good job with their limited roles. I was a bit sad the latter's role killed off. One bit that was odd about Johansson was the overly macho walk she had in a few scenes that really didn't fit in. There's some very good points in this thread. The film could easily have taken out the full two hours and taken more risks, as you lot mentioned, and gone more philosophical. Since Major and Kuze were "rebels" against the progress of the technology it would have been a great fit. They already did a good job at setting up the world. The relationships between some characters could also have been fleshed out a bit more. A decent film with potential to be a lot more but was played safe. :)