It's a two-part TV episode set between the original series and the new film. It doesn't belong in this collection.

Border 1 is Episode 3 & 4 of Ghost in the Shell: Arise Alternative Architecture

Border 2 is Episode 5 & 6 of Ghost in the Shell: Arise Alternative Architecture

Border 3 is Episode 7 & 8 of Ghost in the Shell: Arise Alternative Architecture

Border 4 is Episode 1 & 2 of Ghost in the Shell: Arise Alternative Architecture

Border 5 is Episode 9 & 10 of Ghost in the Shell: Arise Alternative Architecture

https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/62070-ghost-in-the-shell-arise/season/1

I don't really see the difference here. Just because Border 1-4 existed before the series and Border 5 came after doesn't really change the fact that it's a movie IMHO.

Wikipedia also mentions "The AAA broadcast included two original episodes (later released as the fifth OVA)"

@vorsety said:

Border 5 is Episode 9 & 10 of Ghost in the Shell: Arise Alternative Architecture

https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/62070-ghost-in-the-shell-arise/season/1

I don't really see the difference here. Just because Border 1-4 existed before the series and Border 5 came after doesn't really change the fact that it's a movie IMHO.

The difference is simple :

• We only record the original broadcast, as such Border 5 is a TV series.

• A TV series can't be included in a collection.

Ok, so the main question seems to be whether it's a movie or a tv series.

If there exists a movie cut of the two episodes, it counts as a movie and should be allowed to exist as a separate entity independent of them. With movie cut I mean a version where the episodes are concatenated together without openings/endings in the middle, and potentially slightly altered scenes, but the overall runtime of the movie should roughly match that of the original episodes.

https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/22914-shin-kid-senki-gandamu-uingu-endoresu-warutsu is a movie cut of https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/42667-gundam-wing-endless-waltz, for example (rather than a compilation movie of a tv series, which is different)

Now, the Japanese and German bluray releases both seem to have the individual episodes: https://www.amazon.co.jp/-/en/gp/product/B00VJNQXTE/ https://www.amazon.de/-/en/dp/B071YP391J/

But Amazon DE has the movie cut on prime digital: https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Christin-Marquitan/dp/B073RRKXGB

I haven't watched it, but it has a runtime of 46 minutes and doesn't seem like a TV series, where episodes can be selected, bought and watched independently.

Based on this, I think it's warranted to have both entries for the TV series and the Movie cut in the database, independent from each other.

If the movie can be counted as independent entity, the original broadcast date of the TV series has no relevance to the movie, which has a different broadcast/publish date. And movies can be included in the collection.

@vorsety said:

If there exists a movie cut of the two episodes, it counts as a movie and should be allowed to exist as a separate entity independent of them. With movie cut I mean a version where the episodes are concatenated together without openings/endings in the middle, and potentially slightly altered scenes, but the overall runtime of the movie should roughly match that of the original episodes.

Only the first version can be entered in our database. This first version is the series version. Consequently, the movie version is just an alternate version and can't be listed in our database.

So then you're saying both https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/22914-shin-kid-senki-gandamu-uingu-endoresu-warutsu and https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/802809-ghost-in-the-shell-arise-border-5-pyrophoric-cult are invalid entries and should be deleted? Even though they exist and have been published as such?

Would be nice if this issue gets resolved. Either by deleting the movie entry https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/802809-ghost-in-the-shell-arise-border-5-pyrophoric-cult or by allowing the movie entry into the collection.

This is not the first case where rule-inconsistency is practiced on here.

This problem was already solved one time by removing https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/692031-ghost-in-the-shell-arise-border-5-pyrophoric-cult

The new entry https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/802809-ghost-in-the-shell-arise-border-5-pyrophoric-cult created after this has now been deleted also.

There's a new entry, specifically for Border 5: https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/1068246-arise-border-5-pyrophoric-cult

the movie has been removed again.

Thanks superboy97 for your efforts in keeping up with things.

I would like to understand things better here, and maybe explain the source of our cognitive dissonance on the matter.

the movie version is just an alternate version

I can understand that policy for alternative versions such as all of the alternative Blade Runner theatrical releases, or even Director's Cut and Final Cut.

(Allow me a tangent though, as for e.g Director's cut and Final Cut releases, I feel like the system is lacking: either they should be allowed to exist separately - i.e each entry is considered a different body of work - or there should be a way to have alternate cuts listed under the main body of work, e.g with different runtimes and release dates - but this feature doesn't seem to exist)

In this specific case, though, I feel it is warranted to keep both, as it is impossible to collate both, whether on the technical or semantic level.

First, because of the categorisation: one is a TV series and the second is a Movie, which appears to have a number of consequences regarding collections and whatnot.

Second, under the rationale that a DB entry is a body of work, is the body of work that is the movie equivalent to the body of work that is EP9 or the body of work that is EP10?

In addition the Border 5 OVA is (slightly) different from the two-part EP9-10 of the Alternative Architecture series, in the same way that Border 1-4 are different edits of Alternative Architecture EP1-8. Putting EP9-10 back to back does not give the same result as Border 5, which is made to fit after Border 1-4.

There are many, many other examples like that which don't fit the "Blade Runner" rule, and it doesn't seem to give anyone a pause, e.g Macross Plus:

• Movie (1995): https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/18837-macross-plus
• TV (1994): https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/21733-macross-plus

Again, they're mostly the same if you don't pay attention, but the cuts are different, there are a couple specific scenes and dialogs that change, and they cannot be collated in a single entry because of the above two issues I mentioned. I believe their separate existence is warranted precisely because of the categorisation difference. (at least until there is a) a feature allowing to list alternative versions under a body of work, and b) these alternative versions being able to be series and movies under the same main body of work)

This first version is the series version

I feel this is incorrect when taken as a whole: AA (Apr-Jun 2015) has been released after the Border OVAs (2013-2015) as a kind of Director's Cut edition, the two-part Poryphoric Cult (Jun 2015) is part of that later AA release, while Border 5 was released as part of the whole OVA group. Given the timeline, my bet is that this is entirely due to logistics, not the actual OVA work being later than the re-cut AA version.

Based on this release timeline, according to the "spirit of the law" (so to speak) of the policy, and considering that the body of works to compare are the series and the OVA collection it follows that AA (2015) should be deleted:

• AA: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/62070-ghost-in-the-shell-arise/season/1

And the OVAs (2013-2015) I believe should be kept, with Border 5 reinstated:

• https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/196750-arise-border-1-ghost-pain
• https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/212168-arise-border-2-ghost-whispers
• https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/240341-arise-border-3-ghost-tears
• https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/279254-arise-border-4-ghost-stands-alone

To further drive the point home, it was mentioned above that:

• It's a two-part TV episode set between the original series and the new film. It doesn't belong in this collection.
• A TV series can't be included in a collection.

This all points to the DB system, or policy, or both, being lacking in that corner case, resulting in an inconsistent database.

If you are not convinced by the inconsistency of the policy when following the "letter of the law" in this specific case, consider taking it the other way around:

We only record the original broadcast

To keep up with that policy, deleting Border 5 because EP9-10 aired first implies that EP1-8 should be deleted as they were released up to two years after Border 1-4, leaving AA with only EP9+10.

To sum it up, I believe the policy might be good in general, and I applaud your effort in enforcing it, nonetheless I believe the policy does not quite apply and should be amended to cater for these specific cases.

WDYT?

+1 For me I think collections should put things together that belongs together. In my collection Border 5 is simply a missing part.