@Invidia said:

@Wolf359 said:

You somehow take everything that's thrown at you by the writers and producers of nu-trek and defend it to the end. That's exactly the opposite of what they do.

WTF are you talking about???

I'm talking about the show, about ST: Picard. Not an article, not a review, not a Youtube channel, but the show.

You're being just as ABSURD and as IRRATIONAL now as NEX.

Is that the best you can do? Labeling people, who have a different opinion?

NOTHING has been THROWN at me by the WRITERS or PRODUCERS.

The show.

Because the WRITERS and PRODUCERS don't WRITE the REVIEWS that I read.

I'm talking about the show.

So one also isn't DEFENDING THEM when one also has NOT had anything THROWN at me BY THEM.

indeed.

Defending that crap is beyond me.

WHAT CRAP are you talking about???

The show.

PLEASE QUOTE the REFERENCE so one knows what you mean.

Why "Picard", btw?

Why PICARD WHAT??? AGAIN, WTF are you talking about???

At this point, I doubt you would understand.

And WHY is it you ANTI NEW TREKERS always JUMP to FALSE CONCLUSIONS like this that have NO BASIS whatsoever???

It's not a conclusion, it's an opinion. I'm not trying to prove something.

Why not a new show with Picard as a character in it? It seems to me, they got the job but don't know what to do with it. Stewart didn't know about the demise of Picard until shooting day. But whatever.

PICARD is a NEW SHOW with PICARD as a character in it!!!

That's what I meant when I said, you take anything that's thrown at you and defend it. They simply took one of the most beloved characters of 'old' Trek and created a show around him. "Look, we have Picard, your beloved captain. Come! Watch!". That just screams desperation.

In case you're NOT AWARE of this, just like the CASE is WITH NEX, I also HAVE NOT SEEN the SHOW.

... (I don't know what to say) What are you talking about then? You're trying to answer a question about synths depicted in the show and you haven't even watched it??

I couldn't disagree more; first of all, of course, they want to make money, who doesn't?

Maybe PEOPLE like THE SON of RODDENBERRY who might not NEED any more money???

Every company has to make money to survive. Including Rod Roddenberry's company. Btw, what exactly do you know about his financial status?

Therefore perhaps he PRODUCES the show out of the GOODNESS of his heart in an effort to try and PLEASE others who wanted the show brought back to LIFE again???

Keep dreaming. He didn't even like ST in his youth.

Only to GET all the rest of this CRAP that ANTI NEW TREKKERS SPEW FORTH CONSTANTLY???

I seriously don't get it: you haven't watched the show, but labeling people is ok?? What's your problem?

Second, I prefer listening to independent channels over biased channels/reviewers who aren't capable of (or allowed to) seeing and criticizing a product for what it is.

YES, it's also INTERESTING how MOST of those WHO ARE ANTI NEW TREK (like yourself) also DON'T SEEM WILLING to READ ANYTHING (which was also DEMONSTRATED by the way you COMPLAINED that 22 SHORT PARAGRAPHS were TOO LONG for you).

New or old, I'm pro Trek when it's good.

Which also makes one SUSPECT the PROBLEM might be your ATTENTION SPANS which are WAY TOO SHORT (due to the STEADY DIETS that you get from participation in what I call ANTI SOCIAL MEDIA (where one is restricted to only using 144 characters when one communicates).

As if you've written the article yourself. Again, watch the show and state your opinion, instead of labeling and categorizing people.

Professional reviews? Professional journalists? There's no such thing.

YES there is, it's PEOPLE who have COLLEGE and UNIVERSITIES DEGREES in JOURNALISM, and have JOBS where they REVIEW FILMS and TV SHOWS on a regular basis. EBERT would also be one of them. Ever heard of him??? Probably NOT with YOU being too busy watching YOU TUBE VIDEOS.

You're getting more ridiculous the more you speak.

There was NOTHING OPTIMISTIC and BRIGHT about it.

lol

A DS9 MARATHON is on now.

Oh, I don't like DS9 much. I've tried several times to watch it but to me, it's boring af. I prefer a ship and an alien-of-the-week type of story.

Seeing what they did to Trek, no one should wonder why people, esp. older fans, start criticizing the producers and writers of this.. crap.

AGAIN, there was just as much CRAP going on in the OLD SHOWS as in the NEW ONES.

That's just your opinion because old-trek is generally considered bright and optimistic, even by your professional writers.

Have you even watched old Trek? Just asking because, you know, you like talking about shows you've never watched.

Btw, the more I think about it; turning something as solid and consistent as ST (5 decades!) into crap is quite an accomplishment. They should receive a special achievement reward. lol

JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK SOMETHING IS CRAP DOESN'T MAKE IT SO. And one of these days you're also going to have to ADMIT THIS.

In my eyes, this show is crap, and it always will be.

I mean can't they do both? produce good Trek and fulfill their agenda, and everybody's happy? Unless their agenda is producing crap then .. I don't know.

NO. BECAUSE ONE PERSON'S TRASH is another PERSON'S TREASURE.
Therefore NO ONE can EVER MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY.

How would you know, you haven't even watched it?? What exactly are you defending here? Don't you have anything better to do with your time than going on boards and writing about shows you've never watched?

But HOPEFULLY the JERRY SPRINGER TYPE of MENTALITY that one keeps ENCOUNTERING here on the INTERNET will also come to an END eventually so we can have much more INTELLIGENT and INTERESTING conversations about shows than we currently do.

But let's talk about shows we've seen, shall we?

AND FFS STOP WRITING WITH CAPITAL LETTERS BECAUSE IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF YELLING AT SOMEONE! CAN WE HAVE A CONVERSATION WITHOUT YELLING AT EACH OTHER?

Get it?

@Invidia said:

He was INTERVIEWED by WIL WHEATON in the READY ROOM SERIES (VIDEOS they made after each eppy of PICARD aired). PLUS one has also read other articles about him where it explains how he grew up not knowing much about what his PARENTS did and was then VERY IMPRESSED once he watched the TREK SHOWS and fell in love with them (which also indicates he's probably not motivated by the MONEY as much as he is by his LOVE for the SERIES).

If you're posting like this for 20 years then you must at least 30 or 40 years old.. and you still believe that? As I've stated in another post, it's called Hollywood talk. They have to talk like that, it's part of the.. well, game. If I would be sitting in that chair next to Wheaton, I would talk exactly the same way he does. You just sit there, say what everyone wants to hear and leave. Maybe he really was impressed, maybe he hated it. Maybe he does it only for the money, he would never admit it. It doesn't prove anything.

ANTI NEW TREK is merely a DESCRIPTION. A way to clarify the ISSUE at hand that we're discussing here. NEX and KNIX are also well known ANTI NEW TREKKERS.

That's the thing, I'm not "anti" new Trek. Wouldn't make much sense, because I'm not a producer, just a fan. It's like saying "it's raining, I'm anti-rain". But we're all human beings.. we have to vent somewhere lol.

I don't waste time going to places to discuss shows I don't like.

Do you???

No, I don't. I don't like the DC universe much, but I like the MCU. So I don't go to any DC board, but I visit the MCU board from time to time. If a new MCU movie would suck (which has yet to be seen) I would take part in conversations and talk about how disappointed I am. And that's what I'm doing here.

So one can also get a pretty good idea of what's happened by READING THEM. And that's probably also the reason why you didn't even notice until one pointed it out to you that one hasn't even SEEN the show.

I still don't get it. Isn't it much simpler (and healthier) to just watch the show and form an opinion of your own? Because when you start talking about it, people naturally assume that you've seen it.

And that's because I'm an ANTI STREAMER (someone who PROTEST the SHOW only being available for view on the INTERNET instead of being able to watch it on the REGULAR TV CHANNELS the same way as one was previously always able to do before).

That's the reason?? YOU DON'T EVEN LIKE STAR TREK, BECAUSE IF YOU WOULD, YOU WOULD WATCH IT NO MATTER WHAT OR WHERE, STREAMING OR TV, AND...

nah, just kidding. Enough talk for today.

Hey that Dahj and Soji were biological boddies with a positronic brain is not my invention it was something the writers came up with but was never fully explained by the writers so don't blame me for them not keeping to their own continuity even though that premise doesn't make any sense.Also to have androids like Invidia described were far beyonf the ability of Soong or other scientists in that field even the most advanced android in Star Trek ,Ilia in TMP could be identified as an android and that level of technology was far beyond the reach of Starfleet technology that it is impossible for Starfleet to have come up with technology more advanced than that of V'ger.But synths are androids plain and simple . but instead of arguing about that instead one should be discussing the whole dumb anding of Picard where Starfleet suddenly teams up with the synths who want to kill all organic life in the galaxy and fight the Romulans (who suddenly seem to have a fleet of over 200+ ships(where were those ships during the past 20 years and couldn't they have evacuated these Romulan refugees?))who were right in wanting to destroy the synths because they were going to be the end of all organic life in the galaxy WTF?

Yeah but for that technique to work they needed Data's postronic neurons which no longer exist and you still cannot create something biological from something artificial that is a technology far too advanced for Starfleet several civilizations shown in the various itterations of Star Trek and some who were millions of years ahead of Starfleet didn't have such technology so how can Starfleet in a hundred years have technology that is far more advanced than the technology displayed in TOS episodes like Return To Tomorrow and That Which Survives or the TMP.

Now you are bringing in fantasy elements into a science fiction show Star Trek is not Star Wars or BSG for that matter and Star Trek was never much a show about Gods (part of the reasons why I stil have issues with the whole religious aspects of DS9 )Star Trek always had the rationale to assume that certain creatures had evolved so far thzt they would look like Gods but never accepted that there is an omnipotent all determining God. Best illustrated by Kirk in ST V "What does God want with a starship? ".Soji and Dahj are not like Pinokio.

Supernova remnants are just atoms atoms don't have consciousness what you are alluding to is The Force and like I said Star Trek is not Star Wars that was always the difference between the two Star Trek was science fiction and Star Wars was Fantasy.

Should that be seen as a sign of devine intervention? Or just plain physics

But that is not the issue we were discussing here it was about starfleet acquiring technology that is so advanced that it surpasses the technology we encountered in Star Trek of civilisations thousands if not millions of years ahead of Starfleet .Sure Data was advanced by Starfleet standards but compared to Ilia he is a plastic robot toy and even Data was too far beyond the capabilities of the likes of Maddox so how on Earth did we went from that to Dahj and Soji is a scientific leap that doesn't make any sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1zdJQqASX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAO5u1mNQkI

Lt. Ilia was a Deltan on board The USS Enterprise under Kirk while investigating the entity known as V'ger she was killed (or rather digitally copied into V'gers brain ) she later returned as an android to serve as a mediator between the crew of Enterprise and V'ger the android was a far advanced piece of technology way beyond the abbilities of Starfleet technology.

But I think it is pretty obvious that androids are synths the chief of the robot work crew on Mars adresses them as "plastic people".

It has something to do with those FLOWERS, because the one's DAHJ had in her place also WILTED even before the ZHAT VASH shows up as if they already knew they were on the way even before they got there.

Flowers reacting to danger is nothing new and isn't a clue per se.We had flowers reacting violently when confronted with the Salt Vampire in the very first Star Trek episode that aired The Man Trap.

PLUS we also saw LOTS of them inside of the LAB where SOJI dreams about being the parts of a WOODEN DOLL laying there on the TABLE.

Another reference to Pinokio and Data(since Riker described him as Pinokio in Encounter At Farpoint).

At first, I thought Dahj was like a Terminator, a machine with synthetic skin, a modern Data so to speak, but in ep 9, they showed as an unfinished golem on that table. After reading posts about biological bodies, I was confused, because Dahj and Soji showed superhuman abilities. Then, in ep 9, we saw different looking synths on Soji's planet. They had Data's eyes and golden skin. Yet in episode 10, Brent Spiner's character, A.I. Soong switched off Kamasutra via remote control (because she killed a synth and freed Narek). Since biological brains can't be switched on and off on demand, I'd say synths (esp Soji) are androids, like Data, with a positronic brain and synthetic skin. That golem thing remains a mystery. Are their bones metal or biological?

I guess they also want us to believe that after creating one, it can't get changed or enhanced because they programmed Picard to live for only 10 or 20 more years. So it's not like he can receive an upgrade or something. Or may he can and will, who knows?

@Nexus71 said:

... even though that premise doesn't make any sense. But synths are androids plain and simple.

Agreed. Many things don't make sense in this show, mostly because they were not thoroughly explained. It seems like they didn't have a clear concept of how to structure the show: Data wasn't in the show at first, and the Seven-Rafy relationship was 'improvised on shooting day' (Source).

but instead of arguing about that instead one should be discussing the whole dumb anding of Picard where Starfleet suddenly teams up with the synths who want to kill all organic life in the galaxy and fight the Romulans (who suddenly seem to have a fleet of over 200+ ships(where were those ships during the past 20 years and couldn't they have evacuated these Romulan refugees?))who were right in wanting to destroy the synths because they were going to be the end of all organic life in the galaxy WTF?

Yeah, in the final episode, Riker replaced admiral Fucking-Hubris after they already shot the scene with her. Why? Because attracting old fans maybe? (but yeah, it kind of worked, it was good seeing Riker again).

@Invidia said:

Do you really think DAHJ got a FELLOWSHIP at that INSTITUTE without having a MEDICAL EXAM???

Good point. Maybe she hacked their databanks as she did in ep 1?

Btw, yes, I meant Voyager's Doctor (Picardo). He's an advanced AI. Put him in a body with a positronic brain and voila, there's the next Data.

SYNTHS are NOT SIMPLY ANDROIDS, because DATA is one type (MECHANICAL), and they are another COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FLESH and BLOOD TYPE. Perhaps WOLF who HAS SEEN IT can better answer these other ISSUES and CONCERNS that you've put forth???

At this point, I'm not sure what they are supposed to be. See my prev post.

@Nexus71 said:

Yeah but for that technique to work they needed Data's postronic neurons which no longer exist

Madox collected a sample of Data's positronic brain and (finally) was able to replicate it.

What bugs me at this point is, Madox and A.I. Soong had Data living in a box on Soji's planet.. and they didn't recreate him, give him a new body?? Btw, "A.I." Soong !?? It wouldn't surprise me if A.I. Soong is actually an android and made out of Data's.. well, data (memories).

@Invidia said:

The USE of the TRANSPORTER and the REPLICATOR are also FANTASY. Because NO SUCH thing really EXISTS. Likewise the same with the WARP DRIVE too.

Warp drive is at least theoretically possible. Transporter on the other hand... They needed to invent a Heisenberg Compensator to make it work. ...they created the transporter to lower production costs in the first place.

My point is, in sci-fi, going to the extreme rarely makes a good plot. Iron-man is a good example. From the beginning up until Infinity War, his suit was mechanical. Those G-forces should have killed him, but if you get past that, it "looked" believable at least. But after he got his nanotech suit, as a viewer you just go "whatever". That's fantasy land.

Going sub-atomic like in Ant-man? You can come up with time travel, which they did. Time travel and multiverse type stories are (most of the time) a good cop-out tools when you don't have a good story to tell.

For all we know we could also be located inside of a SIMULATION or an ILLUSION just like the SCENE that we saw that took place between PICARD and DATA.

True, but if the simulation is perfect is there a point in asking that question?

Plus DAHJ also said she and SOJI were named after the flowers.

Good point with the flowers. Maybe they dropped that from the story for whatever reason? There are a few things not explained, just like in Discovery.

@Invidia said:

So do we KNOW who did it??? Was it COMMANDER OH??? Someone else??? I've forgotten now who was suppose to be responsible for that happening due to the way the story has changed so many times. First it's someone, then it's someone else??? Was it suppose to be the ZHAT VASH who did it because they wanted to STOP PRODUCTION of the SYNTHS and were willing to DESTROY their own people and prevent their RESCUE to do so??? If so, that's also a pretty FKed up thing to have done because both the ROMULANS and STAR FLEET got SCREWED in the PROCESS when they SHUT DOWN Star Fleet's ability to PRODUCED more SHIPS.

Good question. First I thought, yes, zat vash did it, but then.. "why?", right? Why destroy Mars and prevent the Federation from helping Romulans? Couldn't remember, so I cheated :)

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_on_Mars :

"At the same time however, the Federation's synthetic ban was eventually lifted after it was discovered the synthetics were not responsible for the attack, but rather; it was orchestrated by a secret group of Tal Shiar operatives known as the Zhat Vash whose sole mission was the extermination of all synthetic life."

(they even have a page for those F8 synths : https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/A500)

Was there any indication that the YELLOW TYPES had an ACTIVATION MODE???

No, they just stood around or played soccer.. until they got punched in the face by Elnor.

PLUS they also KNEW how to DESTROY her by SQUIRTING the GREEN STUFF at her (which also made her MAGICALLY and INSTANTLY DISAPPEAR into THIN AIR which is also something that a FLOWER might do to protect itself from some kind of an INSECT).

It was merely green acid, I guess, that burned her skin? Dahj exploded because that rifle she was holding exploded.

Because if the ROMULANS or the ZHAT VASH FUNDS his RESEARCH after STAR FLEET makes it ILLEGAL, then that would also explain WHO made it possible for MADDOX to continue doing it after he couldn't do it at the INSTITUTE ANYMORE.

With replicators around, they won't need funding I guess? But who knows.

HOW do we know SOJI can also be SHUT DOWN??

Touche.

APPARENTLY they can DOWNLOAD his MEMORIES AGAIN into that SAME MACHINE or DEVICE AGAIN and then TRANSFER them again into another DIFFERENT BODY at any time???

True. It's ridiculous.

DO we actually SEE THAT MACHINE they used to TRANSFER his MEMORIES???

Nope. We only see the golem machine and the machine that holds Data's data. Picard shuts it down (and kills Data) by removing three USB-stick like keys, one at a time.

And here's the OPENING CREDITS of that show ...

I've tried to watch BSG but couldn't make it past episode one because of that constant zoom in they do. It's worse than shaky-cam in Borne movies.

So do these other SYNTHS in PICARD also have a PLAN???

Were all of the YELLOW EYED KIND DESTROYED???

No, they weren't destroyed. We don't even know what happened to Kamasutra.

OR do they still have ACCESS to that DEVICE where they can OPEN UP the SKY and let those OTHER even MORE ADVANCED TYPES inside who created those VISIONS for the OTHER SYNTHS that the ROMULANS or the ZHAT VASH got ACCESS to???

They still have that device. Soji punched it, but only destroyed the keyboard-thing. The upper part is intact.

Now that we KNOW someone else who has SEEN the SHOW it's also VERY NICE to be able to ASK THEM these kinds of QUESTIONS about THE SHOW.

To me, the show was a HUGE let-down. But ask away before I forget the show even exists. lol

@Invidia said:

Are 7 and Raffi suppose to be LOVERS or is their relationship based more upon both of them having LOST a SON

Nah, they're supposed to be lovers. After Picard died, Seven sat down next to Rios, they talked a bit. They would make a much more believable couple than Seven-Raffi and Rios-Agnes.

As for STAR FLEET'S change of HEART or MIND in regards to HELPING the SYNTHS, wasn't that also a RESULT of finding out how they'd been TRICKED into thinking the ATTACK on MARS was the FAULT of the SYNTHS when it was really the ROGUE ROMULANS or the ZHAT VASH who was responsible for it??? Because of the way they'd also SEEN those VISIONS that they weren't suppose to have ACCESS to???

I'd say it was primarily because of Picard. He was always pro synth, because he believes they're alive.. because of Dahj, Soji and their connection to Data. In episode 8 or 9, he debriefs and convinces admiral Fucking-Hubris and she decides to send a fleet (right after telling him to shut-the-fuck-up).

So did STAR FLEET also FUND the ZHAT VASH, COMMANDER OH, and PAY for those ROMULAN SHIPS that were BUILT without even knowing it???

I'm not sure they need money. They have replicators and with enough dilithium, they (actually anybody int the ST universe) can produce huge amounts of energy.

Because apparently THESE NEW GOLLUM BODIES also ENABLES one to TRANSFER either REAL HUMAN MEMORIES or FAKE MEMORIES like DAHJ and SOJI HAD into them.

HENCE where the MORE ADVANCED VERSION of a SYNTH comes into play.

At this point, we don't know much about the golem device and the process. Only that they can somehow control the outcome by adjusting the algorithm, like in Picard's case, to determine approx. how long he's going to live.

Actually the DOC was a HOLOGRAM who was also ENHANCED to become a MORE ADVANCED version of a HOLOGRAM by inventing the EMITTER DEVICE for him which enabled him to LEAVE the MED LAB and go other places. Prior to that he was CONFINED to being in just ONE PLACE (like the other CHARACTERS still are inside of the HOLODECK).

The emitter was a "gift" from the 29. century. I can't remember the name of the episode, the one where they travel back to the 90s.

He's only an AI, a program and needs a holodeck-like emitter (mobile or not). In one episode they sent him back to Earth through that Hirogen network. The Doctor doesn't have a body, his 'matrix' (whatever that means) residing in the computer memory is all there is.

Remember how he and the AI also watched the FUNNY FACE FILM and then DANCED together before he LEAVES and heads for HOME again???

I remember.. (unfortunately).

Madox collected a sample of Data's positronic brain and (finally) was able to replicate it.

How was MADDOX able to do that WOLF???

It's not shown, but by reverse-engineering it, I guess? He wanted to dissect Data in "The Measure of a Man", but wasn't allowed to. If he were, he would have reverse-engineered the positronic brain tech years ago.

In other words, DATA might be inside of a MORE HUMAN form now, and PICARD is a form of ANDROID (which also means the 2 of them may have also kind of EXCHANGED PLACES with each other).

Don't remind me.. it hurts LOL

(What did they do to our beloved characters.. sigh)

At first I also thought that might be LORE there inside of SOONG JR., but apparently not???

I'm sure he was considered at one point. Kamasutra is supposed to be the evil version of Soji.

Because he's also more EMOTIONAL like LORE.

It looks like he was anti-Picard (he confines him to his room), but they dropped that story and he became a good guy of some sort (by shutting down evil Kamasutra). At least that's how I see it.

And exactly how does a Heisenberg Compensator WORK???

Very well, thank you!

(I hope you get the reference)

WHAT'S CLEAR is how the TRANSPORTER also TRANSPORTS one's ENTIRE CONCIOUSNESS whenever it TRANSPORTS YOU to another different place.

Which also in THEORY EXPLAINS how one is ABLE to TRANSFER the CONSCIOUSNESS of PICARD from one place to ANOTHER ONE.

Of course, yes. It (magically) reads the state, velocity, energy level etc. of every atom and recreates it at a different location. A transporter creates the perfect copy, before disposing of the original.

With tech like that, even in-universe tech like the replicator becomes redundant (unless replicator is a smaller, simpler version of the transporter).

Lawrence Krauss' "The Physics of Star Trek" is a great read. He explains every tech there is in the ST universe in great detail, what's possible and what not. Disposing of human bodies or warp drives would need a tremendous amount of energy. Hence the fictional material 'dilithium'.

True, but if the simulation is perfect is there a point in asking that question?

YES, because do you really want to EXIST without ever REALLY KNOWING you aren't REALLY REAL and that someone else has CREATED YOU besides your PARENTS???

I mean, if there's no way of finding out (because it's perfect) why asking? It's like asking if there's a god.

Dilithium doesn't just create energy all by itself. It "channels" a matter-antimatter reaction into forms of energy used by warp engines and other devices, especially for a starship which needs huge amounts of energy in a rather small space, for propulsion. Since TNG also mentions fusion power plants etc, it could be argued that more mundane ship systems are powered from those, rather than the matter-antimatter system.

In any event, just having large quantities of dilithium - and there is some evidence that it can't be replicated, for whatever reason, otherwise it wouldn't still need to be mined and transported by ship in the 24th century - is not a power source. No matter how it may be getting retconned in various trash shows.

Dilithium doesn't just create energy all by itself. It "channels" a matter-antimatter reaction into forms of energy used by warp engines and other devices, especially for a starship which needs huge amounts of energy in a rather small space, for propulsion. Since TNG also mentions fusion power plants etc, it could be argued that more mundane ship systems are powered from those, rather than the matter-antimatter system.

Correct.The heisenberg compensator put simply is a device that takes care of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle(which has to do with not knowing exactly where protons and neutrons within atoms are at any given moment )