@joshgallet said:

@condemned02 said:

Future Barry doesn't have his speed (hence the suit) otherwise future Barry would fix flashpoint himself? Total guess tho

Did you like, miss the part of the episode where they were discussing that the suit only provides him better protection because he's that much faster than present Barry?

@komrad said:

@joshgallet said:

@condemned02 said:

Future Barry doesn't have his speed (hence the suit) otherwise future Barry would fix flashpoint himself? Total guess tho

Did you like, miss the part of the episode where they were discussing that the suit only provides him better protection because he's that much faster than present Barry?

With all that's going on in this s/l, is it a wonder why someone would miss something? Not really. Plus HR and the doctor together are sleep inducing, I wouldn't blame anyone for tuning out or falling asleep outright during their scenes.

I'll give them some limited credit for first teasing the explanation for Savitar's suit, by discussing first how Barry's Flash suit essentially does the same thing; keeping his static charge down. When talking about a possible Savitar trap, they talked about it working on a similar principle, I think; where they would fold the energies back on itself, or something, resulting in him being trapped in a pocket of speed force.

It's only partial credit, because it overlooks the fact that Barry doesn't have a problem racing around without his suit. It also fails to explain how there's even still a Savitar prison in the speed force without Savitar; if the prison was generated by his own power. That really would be the perfect speedster prison, but the idea that he could swap someone else out, like Wally, for himself, much less Jay taking Wally's place, doesn't make any sense. Never mind them trying to figure out how to build a prison that Jay's stuck in. Sure, it's a paradox, and eventually someone will need to figure out how to create it, but if it's there now, where a speedster can be trapped in it, work on getting Savitar in there now and do the math later.

Mind you, the plot is so convoluted, it's almost impossible to keep track what order anything is supposed to be happening in; because some iteration of Savitar was manipulating events so he could use Wally to escape from the speed force trap that Barry won't put him in for three years. So by all accounts the present threat is actually the version of Savitar who was already imprisoned by the Flash, but Team Flash is treating it as if this is the point where they have to imprison him for the first time; never taking into account that they will encounter some earlier version of Savitar who has yet to be imprisoned, nor the fact that he escapes anyway.

Now with it turning out to be a future version of Barry, it makes it even more of a cluster-frak, in terms of how that ever so important future news article about the Flash's final disappearance during a crisis is supposed to factor into things. We know that still happens, because that's how they got their first inkling that something happens to Iris, when her name disappeared from the byline. By all impressions of the article, it always suggested to me at least, to indicate Barry's disappearance during Crisis on Infinite Earths, where Barry dies saving the multiverse; which they did a nod to at the end of last season when Barry's time remnant did the same thing. So somewhere along the way we have Barry imprisoning Savitar in 2021, and presumably forsaking his mantle shortly thereafter, so he can sulk. Emo-Barry puts the band back together in 2024, thanks to present day Barry; and yet that Barry still becomes Savitar, presumably after his reported disappearance. One would think Barry already changed the possible future wherein he becomes Savitar, by changing the temperament of 2024 Barry.

or was it the remnant Barry that was created at the end of Season 2

I like that idea, but it pretty much has to be the future version of present-day Barry; just by virtue of him being able to feed Caitlyn the exact words Barry was going to say to her, and where Cisco was going to be. It arguably can't even be Emo-Barry from last week's episode; because Present-Day Barry did two things. First, he completely turned things around and started Future Barry down the path of emotional recovery; which by all rights should have precluded Savitar from being in that Barry's future. But then Barry returned to the present and effectively created a new timeline where the future is going to be, in some fashion, different than the one he just saw. This is a result of him applying the knowledge he gained from the experience; knowledge the 2024 Barry didn't seem to have, namely not knowing who Savitar was, as well as having to wait three years before being able to create the speed force prison they'd use on Savitar. And yet, by virtue of Savitar knowing the words and plans that Present-day Barry would use in this week's episode; Savitar has to be the future product of the timeline created by Present-day Barry going to the future last week and returning with knowledge he'd gained from that trip. By so inextricably linking them that way, there really should be no way of ever out maneuvering him or stopping him from coming into being; because he is the ultimate outcome of all of those efforts, and always will be. And yet, I'm sure they'll contrive a way of doing just that...

Now that is confirmed that it is simply a Time Remnant.

Geez, anti-climax! I am not so excited anymore!

The ending is probably they will simply trap Savitar in a Speed Force before he kills Iris. The End.

@condemned02 said:

Now that is confirmed that it is simply a Time Remnant.

Geez, anti-climax! I am not so excited anymore!

The ending is probably they will simply trap Savitar in a Speed Force before he kills Iris. The End.

Last night was any-climatic, you're exactly right. After all that build-up, he's simply a time remnant and not even the real future Barry. I was hoping to see more Savitar Barry last night. The conversation at the beginning was good, but that was it?

The coolest part of the episode was Killer Frost starting to come around. One of the first things she's going to say when she's Caitlin again is she didn't mean it when she said she didn't love everyone. When she told Jillian she never loved him, I was like...ouch! But when she said it to everyone, she was obviously lying.

@GForce59 said:

The coolest part of the episode was Killer Frost starting to come around. One of the first things she's going to say when she's Caitlin again is she didn't mean it when she said she didn't love everyone. When she told Jillian she never loved him, I was like...ouch! But when she said it to everyone, she was obviously lying.

When she said I never loved anyone I think she was trying to soften the harsh words on Julian and it was clear that Caitlyn was still in there she will be back for sure.

@Jassem said:

@GForce59 said:

The coolest part of the episode was Killer Frost starting to come around. One of the first things she's going to say when she's Caitlin again is she didn't mean it when she said she didn't love everyone. When she told Jillian she never loved him, I was like...ouch! But when she said it to everyone, she was obviously lying.

When she said I never loved anyone I think she was trying to soften the harsh words on Julian and it was clear that Caitlyn was still in there she will be back for sure.

I hope KF is some1 Caitlyn learns to control and then can unleash her when needed.

@joshgallet said:

@Jassem said:

@GForce59 said:

The coolest part of the episode was Killer Frost starting to come around. One of the first things she's going to say when she's Caitlin again is she didn't mean it when she said she didn't love everyone. When she told Jillian she never loved him, I was like...ouch! But when she said it to everyone, she was obviously lying.

When she said I never loved anyone I think she was trying to soften the harsh words on Julian and it was clear that Caitlyn was still in there she will be back for sure.

I hope KF is some1 Caitlyn learns to control and then can unleash her when needed.

I agree, I like KF and think she'd be a great addition to the team.

Having Caitlin come back and have full control of her KF abilities would be the best case scenario. Somehow Cisco will figure out a way to do that.

Question: what would happen if he slapped those bracelets on her right now? Why haven't they tired that to see what happens?

I don't know, they say that they're trying to save Caitlin, but it sure doesn't seem that way. I'm sure some of it has to do with how much time they have for each episode, but I didn't understand why they didn't try and set up a trap for her before she could leave S.T.A.R. Labs. She had to have been there for hours working on getting Barry's memories back, so what stopped them?

@LadyJEsq said:

I don't know, they say that they're trying to save Caitlin, but it sure doesn't seem that way. I'm sure some of it has to do with how much time they have for each episode, but I didn't understand why they didn't try and set up a trap for her before she could leave S.T.A.R. Labs. She had to have been there for hours working on getting Barry's memories back, so what stopped them?

Cisco and Julian are the only 2 that would have the smarts to set the trap and they were working on getting Barry's memories back. If either disappeared, KF would have gotten suspicious.

Besides, Cisco building security features that people can't slip through, isn't exactly one of his strengths. I mean, set off an EMP in a facility he desiged, and the place becomes an almost inescapable death trap by accident, but so far not by design...

They wouldn't need to be gone for hours and they're both highly intelligent and know how to multitask, so they could've easily come up with some kind of trap for KF.

"They wouldn't need to be gone for hours and they're both highly intelligent and know how to multitask, so they could've easily come up with some kind of trap for KF."

Why do they need a trap? Don't they have the special meta-human prison cells at Star Labs. Just knock her out and stick her in there. Apparently all these "geniuses" that are at Star Labs can't figure out how to stop ice. Let me clue them in, use fire! A flame thrower would do just fine. Even that wouldn't be necessary though, Barry is fast enough to just grab her and stick her in her cell before she could ice up. She was already at Star Labs why let her go back to Savitar? Did Cisco fry the brains of the writers and give them amnesia?

@thomasguide2 said:

"They wouldn't need to be gone for hours and they're both highly intelligent and know how to multitask, so they could've easily come up with some kind of trap for KF."

** Why do they need a trap? Don't they have the special meta-human prison cells at Star Labs.** Just knock her out and stick her in there. Apparently all these "geniuses" that are at Star Labs can't figure out how to stop ice. Let me clue them in, use fire! A flame thrower would do just fine. Even that wouldn't be necessary though, Barry is fast enough to just grab her and stick her in her cell before she could ice up. She was already at Star Labs why let her go back to Savitar? Did Cisco fry the brains of the writers and give them amnesia?

There are many definitions for the word trap, including as a verb, not a noun. Such as "to catch by stratagem, artifice, or trickery." I agree with the above poster that they should've been able to come up with a way to get the bracelets back on her.