@ScorpionQ2 said:

I don't think I know of him.

He's a great guy, a garbage man who loves Invidia and deleting his accounts. And Audrey Horne. He's possibly an alien robot too.

Overall, I did enjoy my very first viewing of the series, but If I had watched it 26 years ago and had to live with that ending all this time- I would have been pi ssed.

I'm still pissed. It was all wrong. Never saw Cooper as the type to fail in the Black Lodge by "confronting it with imperfect courage". I still dislike Lynch, partly because of that. No decent person would mess with something like that. It's such a disheartening and perverse message - everyone can be corrupted and butt-fucked by Bob, haha! No virtue will protect you. And it's a patent lie too.

Which killer? Windom Earle or Bob?

Leland Palmer.

Also - as i understand it Audrey survived since she's gonna be in the 3rd season.

@k_who said:

I'm still pissed. It was all wrong. Never saw Cooper as the type to fail in the Black Lodge by "confronting it with imperfect courage" . I still dislike Lynch, partly because of that. No decent person would mess with something like that. It's such a disheartening and perverse message - everyone can be corrupted and butt-fucked by Bob, haha! No virtue will protect you. And it's a patent lie too.

I totally agree

Which killer? Windom Earle or Bob?

Leland Palmer.

I was going to say , Which killer? Windom Earle, Leland or Bob? but since Leland was really Bob at the time, can he/is he really considered the killer?

Also - as i understand it Audrey survived since she's gonna be in the 3rd season.

What, Really? Yay! I am glad, but when that bomb blew in that vault and the old guy had walked out of the vault and the blast still blew his glasses all the way outside to land on a tree branch- I figured Audrey had to have been blown up since she was actually chained to the vault door.

I read the sheriff will not be returning . I loved the sheriff and Cooper together.

@mvmloureiro said:

Who's rewatching Twin Peaks before the new Season begins?

I've recently been introducing one of my rat cousins (who I sort of raised for some years) to the show, the first time I've watched it in some years. It's still great.

@ScorpionQ2 said:

I was going to say , Which killer? Windom Earle, Leland or Bob? but since Leland was really Bob at the time, can he/is he really considered the killer?

Well, yeah, cause he raped and killed Laura. Not Nadine or the Log Lady. It was Leland. That is another thing that didn't sit well with me - how Leland being his daughter's rapist and killer was just casually brushed off as - oh Leland's ok, he's going to Heaven now, nothing is his fault, it's all that awful Bob! But Leland let him, didn't he? Don't most serial killers claim that someone was making them do what they did?
I saw more compassion for Leland than for Laura, childhood sexual abuse victim! Like whoever wrote Leland identified with him!

Also - as i understand it Audrey survived since she's gonna be in the 3rd season.

What, Really? Yay! I am glad, but when that bomb blew in that vault and the old guy had walked out of the vault and the blast still blew his glasses all the way outside to land on a tree branch- I figured Audrey had to have been blown up since she was actually chained to the vault door.

I don't care how, as long as she survived, lol!

I read the sheriff will not be returning . I loved the sheriff and Cooper together.

@k_who said:

@ScorpionQ2 said:

I was going to say , Which killer? Windom Earle, Leland or Bob? but since Leland was really Bob at the time, can he/is he really considered the killer?

Well, yeah, cause he raped and killed Laura. Not Nadine or the Log Lady. It was Leland. That is another thing that didn't sit well with me - how Leland being his daughter's rapist and killer was just casually brushed off as - oh Leland's ok, he's going to Heaven now, nothing is his fault, it's all that awful Bob! But Leland let him, didn't he? Don't most serial killers claim that someone was making them do what they did?

i'm not sure i'm following you here. we are shown by the series the fantastic reality of Leland's possession, no?

but then again...

I saw more compassion for Leland than for Laura, childhood sexual abuse victim! Like whoever wrote Leland identified with him!

...there is this.

@k_who said:

Well, yeah, cause he raped and killed Laura. Not Nadine or the Log Lady. It was Leland. That is another thing that didn't sit well with me - how Leland being his daughter's rapist and killer was just casually brushed off as - oh Leland's ok, he's going to Heaven now, nothing is his fault, it's all that awful Bob! But Leland let him, didn't he? Don't most serial killers claim that someone was making them do what they did?
I saw more compassion for Leland than for Laura, childhood sexual abuse victim! Like whoever wrote Leland identified with him!

Well, from what we saw, it actually was Bob and someone actually was making him do what he did.

@BarkingBaphomet said:

i'm not sure i'm following you here. we are shown by the series the fantastic reality of Leland's possession, no?

One can take it literally or as metaphor. I think those who complained about that twist exonerating Leland are maybe being a bit too literal.

@BarkingBaphomet said:

i'm not sure i'm following you here. we are shown by the series the fantastic reality of Leland's possession, no?

but then again ...there is this.

oh, dear me...... no comment.

@ScorpionQ2 said: Well, from what we saw, it actually was Bob and someone actually was making him do what he did.

From what i saw (about 20 times or so i have watched the series) it was no different than any other rapist/murderer committing crimes while possessed by a supernatural entity. Only in this case there was nothing ambiguous about it (like usually the viewer is left to determine whether or not to believe the possession angle.)

Leland was possessed by Bob as a child, possibly abused by him as well, then went on to "do his bidding" while not quite being conscious of it. In psychiatric terms - childhood trauma, repression, split personality. Not all victims become perpetrators themselves though. Whatever happened to Leland does not excuse him nor does it negate some inherent flaw and weakness in his own personality.

Laura was his child. As anyone who has a child would tell you if they are honest, we all had situations when our children enrage us to the point we'd like to smack them over the head with a heavy object. Most of us never ever do it though. And that's the difference - not following the impulse, because in a normal human being other feelings override it unconditionally. Not the Bob.

If you are buying this innocence angle for Leland than you also have to apply it to almost all other rapists/killers irl and on screen.

I had these feeling ever since i saw TP for the 1st time in my late teens and they never changed in the course of years, no matter how many times i re-watched. Imo, the fact that most people sympathize with Leland so strongly just shows how much power the creator has over the audience to push his own interpretation on them, to change the narrative. I am not easily influenced though. I just see the facts.

@k_who said:

@ScorpionQ2 said: Well, from what we saw, it actually was Bob and someone actually was making him do what he did.

From what i saw (about 20 times or so i have watched the series) it was no different than any other rapist/murderer committing crimes while possessed by a supernatural entity. Only in this case there was nothing ambiguous about it (like usually the viewer is left to determine whether or not to believe the possession angle.) Leland was possessed by Bob as a child, possibly abused by him as well, then went on to "do his bidding" while not quite being conscious of it. In psychiatric terms - childhood trauma, repression, split personality. Not all victims become perpetrators themselves though. Whatever happened to Leland does not excuse him nor does it negate some inherent flaw and weakness in his own personality. Laura was his child. As anyone who has a child would tell you if they are honest, we all had situations when our children enrage us to the point we'd like to smack them over the head with a heavy object. Most of us never ever do it though. And that's the difference - not following the impulse, because in a normal human being other feelings override it unconditionally. Not the Bob.

If you are buying this innocence angle for Leland than you also have to apply it to almost all other rapists/killers irl and on screen.

No. I don't because I know the difference between fantasy and real life. Apples and oranges. What are you talking about "irl" for? It is a TV show- I am not applying it to real life- why would I- why are you? I don't apply TV series or commercials or cartoons to real life. And if I am watching any series/movie and they actually show someone being possessed, and there is no ambiguity -then I will apply it- they are possessed.

I had these feeling ever since i saw TP for the 1st time in my late teens and they never changed in the course of years, no matter how many times i re-watched. Imo, the fact that most people sympathize with Leland so strongly just shows how much power the creator has over the audience to push his own interpretation on them, to change the narrative. I am not easily influenced though. I just see the facts.

So you saw a mind control /conspiracy theory by the creator of the series. ok.

Your last line is often said proudly by those who really don't.

Yes, I do apply it, at least to an extent. Even if it's a fantasy, there's always some underlying relatedness to reality, isn't it? I think it's how storytelling works.

Art is just trying to interpret reality, psychology. That's how i see it anyway.

And i stubbornly refuse to identify with Leland, always did, always will.

I see no conspiracy though. Every film-maker, writer is exercising mind-control over his audience. Otherwise he'd be no good.

@k_who

I do not identify with Leland. Is that what you think I am doing/saying?

I think I took Leland's possession by Bob literally , while you took it metaphorically?

Sorry if I seemed harsh, I do enjoy discussions with you.

oh, you are very sweet!

This is a discussion board, if people agreed about everything here it would be very boring.

@tmdb57932021 said:

oh, you are very sweet!

No. I am not.

This is a discussion board,

Really? Thanks for the info.

if people agreed about everything here it would be very boring.

Who said anything about agreeing?
If you read, my sorry was for seeming harsh @ K_who .