I am halfway through Ep52 now and after a lot of fighting and talking and promising Ezel has now left the prison and gone off with Bahar. Sergar has been spying through the window and as you say - is now wanting to be in on whatever scheme they are cooking up. So Eysan has chucked him out and told Ezel who has gone to Ramiz who hands him a piece of paper and says this will stop him - oh yeah - and pigs will fly !! I don't know if I can cope with forward flashes as well as backward flashes !! It was totally out of character for Ramiz not to have an escape plan for Ali - for the reasons you point out. Another that puzzles me not concerning this series - just something I think you would know - guns and silencers - I read somewhere that the noise comes from the butt end of the gun so having a silencer on the barrel would not work. But you see so many barrel type silencers - can you enlighten me!! Back to the plot - so hitman works for somebody we have not seen yet? Oh come on - you can't do that. It reminds me of a film I saw where two cops were after a serial killer and after two hours they finally find him and one cop says "Who is he?" and the other cop says "Just a nobody". Ohhh - very dramatic - but I felt like kicking the screen in !! Oh - it also occurs to me that if Ezel had the brains to wear a wire he would have put Ali in prison about a dozen times by now.

second comment:

As awful as what she did was, it is still hard from me to watch the revenge plan delivered in finality to Esyan. Ezel crushes her. I know she deserved justice for what she did, no question about it. But it is awful to watch the cruel saga unfold again. And as we said, doing this to someone also damages the person who does it to the target.

There are five more episodes remaining now. I hope they don't leave it like this.

By the way, I have always understood the motivations of Esyan, Cengiz, and Serdar for betraying Omer. But I never understood what it was for Ali. I can't see money as the motivation for Ali. Sure, he wanted money and all it could buy him, but everything they showed us about Ali indicates that he valued friendship and loyalty far more than money. That part doesn't make any sense. Getting him to pull the trigger on the guard, that act, I can understand how he could be motivated to do that by appealing to his ego, by manipulating him, asking him if he had the stomach or the backbone it takes to go through with it. But what could possibly motivate him to agree to the plot in the first place?

99.999999% or more of the noise comes from the muzzle of the barrel. It is caused by the rapidly expanding gases breaking the sound barrier. The sound suppressor works by channeling those gases through a series of small chambers. These allow the gases room to expand a bit in a captured space, and then again in the next small chamber, and the next, and so on, so that by the time the gases finally exit the end of the device they are traveling slowly enough that they don't make much noise. If the gun is a semi auto pistol with a suppressor attached, there are other noises. The slide cycles backward and ejects the case before it compresses a spring fully and hits the frame, and then it returns and chambers the next round to make it ready to fire again. Those actions make noises (as well as throwing a spent shell case somewhere). My friend preferred to use a revolver for these reasons. I imagine some of the sound is transmitted through the metal also, but it wouldn't make much noise that way.

The technology has advanced in recent years. My friend used suppressors (the more accurate term) a lot when he worked inside this country. He said that for a .32 caliber revolver it made it very quiet, less noisy than someone breaking wind. He said the one for a .22 still made a whistling sound. I am sure they are better than that now. They are very useful for covert work of course. But I would like to get a clearance to own suppressors because they save your hearing. People who grew up shooting in the times back before it was widely known how much the loud noises affect your hearing over your lifetime are all hard of hearing now. Well, those who do a lot of hunting or competitive shooting are. People use ear muffs or put foam plugs in their ears, and they help. But I would rather decrease the sound at the muzzle. Ear muffs do nothing to protect against the sound waves that travel through bone conduction. I don't shoot much these days. But it is like anything else. You need to practice regularly to keep your skills sharp.

Actually Ezel was able to scare Serdar pretty much with the information Ramiz gave him. But he continues to be a problem as time goes on. I really, really, want to see him face the music.

Yes, Ezel could have had them arrested. He could have recorded Ali as you point out. In fact, ever since he got that video which Cengiz stupidly held onto he could have had his conviction overturned and had Cengiz and Ali put away for their parts. And Cengiz would have ratted out Sergar and Esyan to try to lighten his sentence, well Serdar at least. Even if he didn't tell on Esyan, as soon as it was shown that Cengiz and Ali committed the robbery and murder the authorities would have examined all the evidence, including Esyan's testimony. They would have looked into her at that point and discovered that she was Serdar's daughter. Serdar would have ratted out Esyan quicker than anyone. So he could have gone the legal route, and he should have done so. The news of what they did would have made the four of them pariahs in the whole country. Even if they only served short sentences, they would have found life very difficult. Plus, they would have been on the hook for all that money, a great deal of which had been spent already. Are there laws regarding profiting from a crime in Turkey? I would bet there are. The legal system could have provided a very adequate form of justice, if it worked correctly. I don't suppose that prison life would have been very fun for them either; nobody would have thought very much of them.

I can understand his need for taking them down in a very similar fashion to the way he was betrayed. There is something to be said for delivering to them the same kind of treatment they showed to him. It feels just. But it also eats at the soul of the person who has to practice that betrayal.

second comment:

Things are heating up in the last episodes. There are some surprising twists in the plot that I didn't see coming at all. It is more exciting now. It's getting better.

Hurry up. Watch faster. I want to talk about this.

Oh I hope so - the episodes are dragging a bit at the moment. I am up to the point where Bahar has walked in on Ezel and Eyzan making good use of the table !! Bahar runs outside and guess what - collapses again - little Ali does a masterful job of managing to pick her up - it looks like a bit of an effort for him even though she probably weighs less than a packet of chips. Ezel finally gets to talk to her - or should I say listen - and she goes back to Ali's "crib" where she tells him she has stopped taking the tablets because they don't work any more. She is very selective in what she tells Ali - like Ezel paid for her airfare and her treatment in London. Whilst I remember - why hasn't Ezel's mother told him that Can is his son? I love the Turkish Court system - here are three things that prove you are guilty. Oh well - why bother with a trial then - same day sentencing as well. Sergar has visited Cengiz in prison and they are hatching some plot or another and he is back as "head of the household" (where's my rolling pin to beat him over the head with!) Eysan just lets him. She has had a talk with Bahar and partially smoothed things over - telling her what a dreadful thing she did for her but not what it actually was. I object to that - she did not do it for Bahar at all - she did it for herself. I wish they would stop shilly shallying between her motives for her betrayal. It's getting annoying now. And why is Sergar so visibly back when he acted so terrified of the people who were after him - it doesn't make any sense. Another thing - did I pick it up wrongly or did Ramiz say that Ezel was his fourth son - it didn't sound as if he meant it figuratively. So is Omer in fact adopted or did Meliha have a fling which resulted in his birth. Couldn't she see where the contraceptives were !! Thank you for the explanation regarding the silencers or suppressors - you seem to know a huge amount about a lot of stuff.!! I think it is just another thing that the writers don't expect people to analyse - why Ali went along with Omer's betrayal - it is totally against his nature - not to mention the fact that he loved Omer as a brother. Cengiz. Serdar and Eysan are the real villains of the piece - it is no good trying to reverse how Eysan has been painted now. It was her boyfriend - her idea - her testimony that resulted in Omer's conviction. Why did they need Ali to kill the guard? They could have worn balaclavas and knocked him unconscious and completed the robbery. But they fully intended to murder him from the outset - if not - why take a gun. What would they have done if Ali had refused to go? It is just another weakness in the plot.

I would hate to be tried in a Turkish court. If they believe you to be guilty, it seems that serves as evidence of your guilt. "Your honor, this man is guilty and should therefore be convicted." Judge: "well this court doesn't let guilty people go free. Is there any other evidence?" Prosecutor: "This woman saw the guilty man walking home just one hour after he committed the crime. She testified that he had a very guilty look on his face." Judge: "Naturally. Any other evidence? No?, well that's alright. We've heard enough already. Besides, the guilty man claims he is innocent, which is what all guilty people say. That pretty much wraps up this case. Next!" Yeah, I am being a bit unfair to them, a bit.

Mehila has no good reason I can think of for not letting others know that Can is Omer's son. It has nothing to do with the Ezel is Omer secret. Esyan told Mehila about Can, and it wasn't a secret she cared if others knew, or she didn't indicate so. It seems like Mehila would at least have told her husband. This is another oddity which is left unexplained. This family seems to keep a lot of secrets from each other. I can't figure out why this should be a secret though. However, if I were in that family I would keep everything a secret from Mert. That stubborn, willful, hothead is too immature and stupid to be trusted with anything.

Has Esyan told Bahar what they did to Omer yet? I don't recall if that has happened yet by the episode you described. Nothing remarkable about that conversation. It goes about as you would expect. Bahar is shocked to hear what they did, but her reaction is tempered a bit when she learns that her life saving medical treatment was paid for with the proceeds. She still hates what they did and tells her sister that she should have let her die instead.

And Sergar, seriously Esyan should begin a program of behavioral conditioning with him, using a rolling pin as you say. When Sergar starts in with his "but I'm your father. You can trust me" crap she should bean him hard with that rolling pin. Anytime he asks for sympathy or trust he should get another hard whack with the rolling pin. His head would quickly be covered in knots, and he would have a couple of broken arms as well. "Trust you?!" WHACK. You mean like when you promised Omer would only do time for the robbery? I think the idea was they needed Cengiz to get the guard to open the locked door by playing on his familiarity with the guard. But he could ID Cengiz so Serdar said Alie would need to kill him. But he told them to keep it a secret from Esyan. If Ali had flat refused to go along with them then they could not have pulled it off. Cengiz told Sergar that he knew he could not do murder, as much as he wanted the money. Sergar told him don't worry, that is why we need brother Ali. He can do murder, I see it in his eyes.

Ramiz said he wasn't his son "by blood" a couple of times, maybe not the first time he said it, I am not sure. Yeah that caught my attention when he said it. It doesn't make much sense; it would be out of character for Mehila to sleep with someone else. Of course she might have just made a mistake, being blind. She claims she knows Omer by his smell so she should have been able to smell the difference if Ramiz took her to bed. But if she had a cold I guess she might have slept with him by accident. Whoops! No, the Omer is my son thing was meant in some figurative sense. He never really explains how he came to view him that way, he only says he did.

I've always liked to understand how things work. I am no expert in most subjects but I have a wide variety of interests. I could kick myself for being a wild kid who didn't care about school until I was in college. If I had become serious early in life and had applied myself I might have followed a different path. I tested into Mensa as an adult, and the IQ test also showed I have ADD. I aced several sections of the test which test non-multi-tasking brain functions, but was just average in the multi-tasking sections. That is definitive for ADD. If I had been diagnosed early in life and if they had been more aware of the disorder at that time, perhaps I would have been more interested in school and might have taken it more seriously early on.

second comment

I am getting so sick of these scenes in which one character has some emotional outburst toward another, and that other character keeps starting to say something, to tell them some truth which has been kept a secret and which would greatly impact the situation, but gets interrupted by the first character each time they begin to speak. This happens in many shows. It is another way the writers tease us, and create tension in shows. It is a kind of emotional blackmail, maybe that it the wrong analogy. The viewer knows that this secret must be told or shared, yet it isn't shared.
The emotional outburst is like emotional diarrhea, or something unpleasant like that. I get really fed up with that plot device.

I've just watch Esyan unloading on Ezel, again. Ezel started to speak several times to tell her that he is Omer and she kept cutting him off, interrupting him each time. She walked away and the scene ends with Ezel standing there looking emotional distraught.

Well, too bad buddy. This revenge bullshit plot has gone on too long, with too many stupid rationales for keeping that knowledge secret. I know, the producers want to extend the show a little longer because the longer they delay, they longer they stretch this out, the more money they make.

But they go too far, they get too greedy, and they wind up ruining the quality of the show by using this plot device far too many times.

The viewers who have to put up with this bullshit should get together and say "Enough is enough. Let's gather intel. on these stupid, greedy producers and devise a revenge plot of our own. We will find out what is most important in their lives and then destroy it, slowly."

OK, I guess I let it get to me too much.

I finished the series. I don't think they thought it out well. I will wait to give my thoughts until you finish the show

Well it kept you entertained - even if it was in a frustrating and infuriating way !!! So they didn't think the ending out well -hmm - that does not bode well either. Never mind - when I finish it - (which may take a while - I am on about Ep 56 ) we shall tear it apart all over again and concoct our own ending !!! Be careful of accepting diagnoses that come from anywhere other than a qualified professional. You don't seem to have any problem on focussing on anything - quite the reverse. You seem extraordinarily intelligent and humorous and well adjusted. Ok - so maybe you were a wild child - that's not so bad - just teenage rebellion. I was hardly ever in school for different reasons - I hate to say it - but it is evident now that my mother was mentally ill. She spent most of her time asleep - only getting up when my father was due in from work - so he didn't know anything about it. As 5 and 7 year olds my brother and I had to drag ourselves out of bed and get our own breakfasts - bread and butter usually - and follow the neighbours to school. Needless to say - we were absent a lot - and that continued when we were older because the pattern had been set. We are both intelligent people - but we both carry emotional scars from childhood. I left school at 15 with no qualifications - every thing I know I taught myself - I have read thousands of books on hundreds of different subjects - some fiction (Adam Hall's "Quiller" is my favourite) but mostly factual - historical - biography - criminology etc. I have a huge interest in witchcraft - Magic (not the stage kind) Tarot - remote viewing - anything not easily explained. I may not have formal qualifications but I feel I know far more than my erstwhile classmates ever will. I have tried Mensa tests for fun - I do ok in them apart from the picture stuff where you have a series of blocks and you have to continue the sequence in the next empty block etc. I don't know why but my mind instantly closes down when faced with anything like that. It's as if I automatically assume I cannot do it - if I am given time I can work it out - but I can't do these things quickly. Last time I tried I scored 147 - but these unofficial tests don't mean much. Back to Ezel - I have always felt that this show would have been more successful and less irritating if it had been confined to one 20 ep season. To drag it out this long meant interminable repeats of situations and inconsistencies and things left hanging - as if the writers thought that their audience would simply forget about them. Maybe we have a different mind set to their expected audience. Oh well - back into the fray !!

Intelligence has nothing to do with either focus or schooling. You can be a genius and have ADD. Actually the test scores on the IQ tests may be a little skewed by your schooling, but supposedly they developed the tests with people of all educational levels so that influence is supposed to be minimized. But no test is perfect. They keep revising the WAIS IQ test. The guy who tested me was a psychologist who specializes in ADD. I had studied it in school and begun to suspect I fit the profile too well. He got really excited when he gave me the test. I was like his poster child for ADD.

I have taken some of those over the counter IQ tests and they came out close to the WAIS. So you are likely of genius IQ or at least very high IQ also. Stanford says 140 and up is genius, others put the cutoff a bit higher. I was supposedly somewhere north of 150. Your self image is affected by how you view the value of education and how you perceived that others viewed you. I have to laugh at some of the comments you make. You get fed up with the stupid things in these shows and the stupid things people do.

If you scored low in certain sections then you were very high in others to get such a high score. That is like me. So maybe it makes sense that we like talking things over. We can appreciate the perspectives we both bring, both smart and from different life experiences. My dad was an alcoholic, pretty smart, better with math than me. Parents divorced when I was young, which allowed me to be a wild child. Mom was working and dad wasn't there.

Anyway, let me know when you watch more of the show and we can talk about it. I will catch up on other stuff in the meantime.

After stopping her from leaving at the airport at Ali's request - Ezel has told Bahar that he is Omer - after much convincing including the kill video she believes him. Later she tells Ali she wants nothing more to do with him. Meanwhile Cenzig is being helped by blue-eyed boy and has acquired photos of Tefik and Ezel together. (There is, of course, as secret photographer on every street corner in Turkey) Eysan has told Bahar on questioning that she "did it for her treatment" (sighs) treatment that would have cost a couple of thousand maybe - whereas the Casinos - private houses - yachts et al would have cost millions. Bahar didn't ask where the rest of it went - conveniently. Now Ali is setting up Tefik - who arrives at his house with no suspicions despite the cavalcade of cars outside. Ali is acting like his usual crazy self and makes him choose a gun from a table of about seven. Why would he do that? Why not say leave your gun here and use this untraceable one. They wait for Bahar to receive a phone call from Ezel and they arrange to meet in "a secluded place" (why - one might ask) silly billy Bahar can't remember the address so she asks a waiter for a pen and paper and writes it down! Of course the guy following her asks the waiter and off we go. But don't worry she will stop at a traffic post of some kind and the guy following her will have plenty of time to knife her tire. The scene unfolds at the river bank where Ali tells Tefik to shoot Ezel - whereupon Tefik turns on Ali with a knife at his throat. "I will tell you everything" says Ezel - honestly - do any of us care any more? Seems like Ali does because he gives him until tomorrow night. Meanwhile Ramiz has told his daughter a story about how he came to Istanbul and the they said no I said yes monologue revealed his arch enemy to be a guy he had healed (how does that work). No explanation about him going into that tall building with ten guys and coming out unscathed. By the way - they leave that kill video lying about where anybody could get it - haven't they heard of safe deposit boxes or even a safe? But then safe passwords are so damn easy to figure out. I am bloody but unbowed - I will continue !!

Ezel is taking a chance telling Bahar his secret, but he feels guilty about hurting her and she demands that he be honest with her. Plus, she is so different to the others I guess he figured when she learned what they did, how they set him up, that she would keep her secret. But what about her sister? As much as she hates what she did, she doesn't want something bad to happen to her sister. Ezel has taken too long to set them up I think. His plan requires that he gain their trust, and love, so he can betray them as well. But he has taken so long that he is also being viewed more and more suspiciously by them. The wild card is that Ramiz has this other powerful enemy. The writers keep trying to throw us curve balls. It looks like curtains for someone, then they survive and recover. Ramiz's enemies are looking at his associates and his enemies. That is why they are interested in Cengiz.

With all their millions why don't they have a security team watching over Can? Cengiz and Esyan love him dearly, so why don't they spend the money there?

Ramiz always has something to trade I guess. They keep us in the dark about much of his doings, just like everyone else. I think Ramiz saw something in Omer he could work with. He is getting old and he needed to train someone to help him against his enemies, a job he will ask for eventually in return for helping him all this time. But he grew close to Omer and Ezel. He became like a surrogate son to him. That is what I got from it.

Anyway, Ramiz leaves the building alive and well, as usual. How does he do it? I guess people listen to that gravelly voice. Maybe he started quoting poetry and proverbs and confused them, and then just walked out. "When you question your enemy, sometimes your eyelids get heavy and you cannot keep them open, and you just SLEEP" Maybe that is what he told them.

When Ali ambushed Ezel under the bridge I thought that would have been the time to tell him who he was. But Ezel was stubborn about sticking to the plan. Dumb. The plan is dead if you are dead. If I thought I were going to die from a bullet to the base of my brain I would alter my plan and tell him who I was. "Ali, remember when I worked for you and asked to get off early so I could ask Esyan to marry me?" Anything to stop him shooting me. But it turned out the idea was not to kill Ezel, as Ali had said. It was to catch Tefo. Then the job became saving Tefo. Ramiz is afraid he may talk. So what? Is his life less important than waiting to tell Ali who Ezel really is? But Ezel doesn't want anyone to die because of him and he is determined to get him back alive.

You will see a couple of important people die before long and it will shake things up. I don't want to get ahead and I won't say who they are yet.

So Tefo survived - but Ezel is now angry because he shot Eren - even if it was accidentally. What did Eren ever do for him except be an ungrateful psychopathic pain in the butt. I don't know why he was ever even in this story. After taking a minute to put his underpants on over his trousers Ezel does a superman rescue of Tefo and tries to make Ali realise who he really is but Ali is having none of it. Now poor old Tefo has been told to go. Cengiz - oh boy - The Prisoner - "I am not a number" (Did you ever watch "The Prisoner" with Patrick McGoohan - if not this reference will be utterly meaningless to you !) Yes you are mate - you are number 12 and to prove it we will carve it into your arm. Never mind - ol blue eyes will get you out of prison - ask you some questions and then - well - shoot you. But Cengiz escapes thus changing his name to TOMTHM - the only man the hitman missed. He goes straight home and threatens Eysan - goes to the casino where inexplicably Ali gives him clothes and cash and then waylays Bahar and tells her that Eysan didn't do it for her - she did it for herself. Please tell me it is Sergar who is killed - I would love to see him floating down the river in his red silk pyjamas. I wonder about Ramiz - he is supposed to be this big Mafia type Don that everybody is afraid of - knows everything - has an entire town willing to defend him - and yet - when it comes to a fight he brings along no more than seven or eight men and thinks that Ali may beat him. But then I gave up trying to make this make sense about thirty episodes ago !

I think Eren was written into the story for a couple of reasons. As the son of the guard that Ali murdered, one reason would be to show another way the crime done by the conspirators damaged people; the boy who grew up without a father, who grew up hating a murderer, but the wrong person. And another reason for him is to show the good side of Ezel, who tries to help the troubled boy who was yet another victim of his "friends". They keep showing Ezel as the innocent wronged who cares for other innocent people, and they contrast that side with the man he is turning into. And once again, those idiots left that kill video all keyed up to go on that laptop instead of locking it away. Eren actually pointed his pistol at Tefo who reflexively shot him. I don't know why he later told Ezel "I thought he was going to shoot Ali". He did shoot Ali. But when Tefo came in the room he whipped the pistol around toward Tefo who defended himself. It was a reflex, it looked like it. Guys who have been in firefights don't think when they see a muzzle being lined up on them, they just shoot as quickly as possible so as to be the one who lives through it. Ezel was a bit hypocritical there, but Tefo told him the wrong things also.

I didn't see The Prisoner. I really don't like prison movies much. It is too depressing. If it is anything like the movies, I think I would wind up killing someone inside, and then become a lifer. Ugg. I don't like to think about it.

I can't tell you anything; I don't want to ruin the surprise. We will discuss it all afterward.

I think Ramiz isn't as rich as he used to be. His organization isn't as large or as strong as his enemy's. The last several episodes are pretty busy.

A good thing about this show is that it does try to show how much damage is done to everyone when people conspire to do evil, or to take revenge for it outside the law. Ezel, through his association with Ramiz, draws the attention of Ramiz's evil enemy, and innocent people are hurt because of it. So everyone winds up with some responsibility for bad things which happen.

But then they fail to really do anything with that, draw any morals of the story. After all the stupid proverbs (e.g., 'Everyone talks about a second chance. But no one doesn't want to remember how they entered from the door which opens to the evil') they don't use the story to make any statements about either greed, or the rule of law, or the perils of taking revenge.

Yes - they hammer home the "if you seek revenge - first dig two graves " message. I take your points about Eren - I just really disliked the character. Sorry about the prisoner reference - I just couldn't resist it under the circumstances. I didn't really expect you to know it because it was a British short lived series from the sixties. It was very stylised and you either loved it or hated it. It was about a spy (McGoohan) who wanted to retire but his masters didn't want him to - so they imprisoned him in a village (filmed in an actual village in Wales called Portmeirion) with all these weird characters, all of whom were designated a number. If he tried to get out a great big white balloon prevented him and there were guards at every exit and every one was constantly surveilled. The number that he was designated was "6" and he was always saying - "I am not a number" but we never got to know his name either. McGoohan was so arrogant and dominant that he interfered constantly with the writers and the directors and most of them wouldn't work with him and left after a short while trying to. This resulted in the show having many different ideas and interpretations which didn't always make sense. McGoohan took over the final episode which was utterly ridiculous - abandoned the original premise of a spy being tested to breaking point - and ended up as it was all a dream. The confusion and weirdness of the show lead to it acquiring a cult following. One of the reasons I detest McGoohan - an intensely arrogant man who thought he could act and direct and in my opinion wasn't any good at either. I thought it possible that being as it was such a cult show it may have ended up in your neck of the woods at some point. Be grateful it didn't !! I too dislike prison movies - also kidnap and hostage movies - I can't stand too much conflict !!!