I wont say any more for now then - other than the fact that I think they are taking Eysan's conflicted personality too far - she is continually switching between poor put upon heroine and the reincarnation of Aileen Wurnos. I just have this feeling of confusion in the writing - as if they aren't quite sure which direction to go in. Also - on a personal note - I wish Ali would smarten himself up - he looks like a tramp with that dirty long hair that hasn't seen a scissors for years and that awful grey stubble. I had hopes when they were in the barbers but it came to nothing!! How he can stand next to Ezel the Immaculate and expect Bahan to give him the time of day I don't know!!

I'm watching episode 36 now and in a flashback they are showing a whole different side to Eysan. In this scene she isn't the loving fiance who is torn between saving her sister's life and protecting her fiance from this betrayal. In this scene she is every bit as calculating as her scumbag father, but much more cold-hearted in nature. She started kissing Cengiz in the garage, having already alerted Ali so he would catch them at it. And she did this as part of her plan to involve Ali in the theft and betrayal plot (though I am not sure how this was meant to persuade him to betray Omer). In the first series they always portrayed Esyan as the unfortunate daughter of a scumbag father who forced her to participate in crimes, and who was faced with a dilemma where she betrayed her finace to save her sister's life. But she was wracked by guilt over what she had done, and thought of Omer fondly. She was still in love with him and wished she could undo the wrong thing she had done.

But now in this flashback they show her manipulating Cengiz, playing on his infatuation with her, convincing him to participate in framing Omer. They show a cold side to her. I suppose the two sides are not incongruent. Her father told her he would expose her past to Omer and his family, and expose her lies about having no family of her own, and thus destroy her hope of a happy life with him. Then he played on her love for her little sister. So once Esyan decided she had to go along with her father's plan, she became the cold hearted manipulator we see in this flashback. Having committed herself to the plan, she set about manipulating everyone as her father had taught her to do. She showed no compunction about framing Omer when speaking to Cengiz. And that little weasel was only too willing to betray his friend in hopes of getting Esyan as his girl.

Ali seemed like a great guy in the first episode, except for the brief scene in which he alludes to using his pliers on people. But after the crime happened, he became the half crazed, stupid, laughing, greasy, thug we've seen since then. He never dresses like someone who works in a casino. He still wears leather jackets and jeans, has a few days growth of beard, and unkempt greasy hair. And it seems he refuses to display manners.

I'm watching 37 now. Ramiz has gone missing, I presume as part of his plan which he secretly made using Tefo and others who owe him everything. Now Ezel needs him to leverage Ali in agreeing to betray Cengiz, but they cannot find him. Tefo is back, but so far has not been in touch with Ezel. I imagine he will reach out to Tefo since he is tight with Ramiz. The episode is just beginning as I write.

OK, Ezel just spoke to Tefo while looking for Ramiz. He claims he is alive but doesn't know where he is, as Uncle wants it. Ramiz is shown hiding in an abandoned building as people search for him. They turn back before finding him. Than Ramiz, knife in hand, goes walking along carefully, looking out for people. But he is whistling! Come on, if you're trying not to be found, wouldn't you want to be quiet? Now it seems that the organized criminal group which controls casino ownership wants Ramiz dead. Ali wants him dead too. And Ezel needs him. A lot of people are looking for Ramiz. And he is working some plan of his own.

well, well, Ali finally caught on to Tefo making phone calls when he isn't looking. He caught Tefo trying to call Ramiz and tossed his phone.

Now I am up to ep 38. Eysan has spoken to Ezel professing her love for him and her love for Omer.

Eysan just lied to Cengiz at the airport. She took the suspicion off of Ezel. Cengiz hit Eysan. I think that sealed the deal with Eysan. She will betray Cengiz for sure now. Ramiz was smarter than those going after him. I thought he would be, and then I thought perhaps it was the end for him. But I was right the first time. And now Ali and Eysan are on board with Ezel.

The whole Ramiz business came out of the blue - why after so many years did the popcorn eating fatso guy put out a fatwa on him? He knew he wasn't allowed to do that - they don't give any real reasons in this show - they just make people do things with no real strength of motive. Anyway - now that scruffy Ali has been accepted by Ramiz's organisation I suppose that forbids him to attack Ramiz again and people will also keep an eye on him. Why all that business with the radio channel - there has to be easier ways of doing things and what if they had no radios available. Another silly thing was when Ezel met Eysan in the hotel bedroom and Ali turned up and caught then - two minutes later up turns Cenzig - of course it just happened to be their anniversary and Ezel always keeps fairy dust in his pocket just in case !! I also loved the way that Ezel said to Eysan lets run away together and take Bahar with us - she is your sister - she will understand - what a load of claptrap - the main thing that women kill each other over is men - sisters included !! Tefo has just shown Ali the "photoshopped" pictures of them in jail and they have had yet another gun to gun confrontation. Oh - and what is Cengiz doing with the unkillable Sergar? Now Cengiz has smacked Eysan one in the chops (hurrah - time somebody did) and she has invented a super lover to punish him - as an aside - doesn't that kid Can get on your nerves - he is always disobeying people and doing his own thing - he doesn't look to be twelve years old either. Now Cengiz has decided on a series of coincidences who Eysan's lover is and intends to kill him. It never rains but it pours huh !! I am getting really tired of Eysan's 23 faces of Eve - what she did was unforgiveable and she did it for herself and nobody else - not even Bahar. I am also getting very tired of the wise words voice overs. Oh goodness - there's another 30+ episodes yet and you just know that Sergar is going to reappear. Why did I find this series !!! lol

I think the show became popular during the first season so the producers decided to try to stretch it out for a second season to make more money. I base that on the way the plot keeps getting delayed with stupidly contrived issues which pop up to put the breaks on Ezel finishing his revenge plot on the others. So the producers told the writers to brainstorm ways to stretch out the plot over a two year show instead of a one year show. Thus we get all these contrived subplots, filler material which isn't directly related to the main plot. It think that a lot of the bits where Ezel is emotionally torn between revenge and possibly hurting innocent people was created as filler. I mean, they would have had some of that, but they added in a lot more of it to add time to the subplots. The fatso movie theater guy plot took up a couple of episodes, and wasn't necessary to the main story. They got a surprise hit and wanted to ride that money train as long as they could.

They gave a weak motive to the fatso movie guy; Ali offered him two casinos if he would greenlight the hit on Ramiz. That doesn't really make sense because he had the power to make deals like that all along apparently , and could do so without violating "the rules". Ramiz could have made a call and said have everyone move at 8:06pm exactly, or something like that instead of going through the elaborate 'call the radio show and ask for this song, and have everyone tune in to this radio show to hear the song' routine. Also, why wait to give them the radio show dial numbers? What was top secret about that? They were trying to make it look "cool", like a spy movie.

Maybe Ezel has a secret "revenge spy secret agent kit" containing fake party glitter and all sorts of stuff for just such occasions.

Yes, Ezel doesn't really understand women if he thought he could take both sisters along and things would go smoothly. When Eysan decided to leave with Ezel she knew better than that. She told Bahar "I love you, I did all I could to help you, now you are free. Why don't you fly to Nepal? You said you wanted to go there once". In other words, get as far away from me and Ezel as possible sister.

I think Cengiz sought out Sergar after Eysan told him she was having an affair. Cengiz said something to himself like "no more Mr. Nice Guy, I need to talk to the most evil, schemer I know".
You probably know by now that Cengiz and Sergar cooked up the possible lover guy as a way to smoke out the real lover, but Ezel discovered their plot just in time, and Ramiz apparently got to him at the last second to keep Ezel's role a secret.

I think Sergar will be one of the last to go down. Since Ezel convinced Ali and Eysan to plot against Cengiz, I have been waiting for some semblance of a plan. Again they are dragging this subplot out over many episodes. I am up to ep 48 and they still have not sprung the trap on him although it appears they will send him to jail soon...maybe.

And yes, the words of wisdom are getting old. And they sound like nonsense half the time. Ramiz is the voice reading those words of wisdom with his gravelly voice. It's a good voice for it. But the so called words of wisdom don't make sense half the time. Sometimes they sound false to me.

I am on Ep 44 - Ali and Cengiz (who has suddenly become Ramiz's Moriarty) have gone to the " only man who crossed Ramiz and survived". Of course super clever Ramiz sent this guy a letter where he let drop his child's name (as you do) and now Ali and Cengiz are after who they think is his son. Ramiz after the "tense game of cat and mouse" at the card table with Cengiz - runs down the stairs saying Kiddo (neat no gender name) meet where I told you to. Of course it turns out that it is a girl which you could tell straight away - and she is the author of the hate book about her father. Ezel then spends 15 - yes 15 minutes viewing a video where she is identified - who took this video? Tefo took a bit of it but as he was in the last pictures he couldn't have taken them. Ezel emerges after half a lifetime and is not suspected at all. He takes her to Ramiz and she spends 10 minutes in the car rabbiting on to herself about how her father never came when she called him blah blah blah - and yet he has her phone number and a secret place to go to? I had to laugh when Sergar was running down the road with two fit young guys behind him and they couldn't catch him up - this was followed by Eysan fussing over him like a mother hen - that relationship is getting a bit creepy now. Eysan has told Mumtaz he is Can's grandad - how long before Ezel finds that out - another fifteen episodes probably. And that street!! I have never seen so many people heading in the same direction since I lived near to a football stadium when I was a small child. I am glad you feel the same way as me about those voice overs - a lot of the time they are utter rubbish and as you say - make no sense. I think they should have stopped the Ali out to get Ramiz situation - he's tried it once and they know he will keep on trying - so in the real world he would be whacked tout suite. His wild eyed craziness is also wearing thin now - "I will change, Bahar" he says and then goes off with his pliers looking for another victim. It is getting repetitive and therefore tiresome no doubt due to the reasons you put forth.

The " only man who crossed Ramiz and survived" will show up in a couple more episodes soon and will wind up playing a pivotal role in the revenge plot. As it finally unfolds you get a sense of just how diabolical it is to do this to someone. Of course, it was unforgivable to do it to Omer, the sweet kid who thought only the best about his friends and loved Eysan with his whole heart. It is only the depth of that betrayal which allows you to stomach what they do to Cengiz. It is an elaborate plot and takes longer to unfold than you first believe it will. At one point I thought Azad, Ramiz's daughter would ruin the plot but it turns out not to be so. Ramiz and Ezel "took everything into account".
Ezel forces Ali and Eysan to be involved in betraying Cengiz, and they have a tough time dealing with betraying another friend, but this is seen as fitting since they did it to an innocent person to begin with. They still don't know who Ezel is. Ali believes that Ramiz is the person motivated to get revenge for Omer. Ramiz told Ali he has the videotape proving he is the killer so Ali has to go along with his part in the plot, even though his part is quite dangerous. That is all I will say at this point.

Azad saw the camcorder in Ezel's hand when she showed up "to get the story", and she winked at Ezel. But Ezel took an unnecessary risk there. Why hold the camcorder in your hand where Cengiz and Ali might notice it and ask "hey, what's on that camera?" Pretty dumb. And yes, the video of Azad being chased: Tefo had a very steady hand as he ran along chasing after Azad and the man sent to kill her. So what did he do? Did he put the camcorder on a ledge pointed at Azad and himself? Another very implausible scene showed Azad using her broach to defeat the hitman who attacked her with a knife. Sure, and she came away without a cut. It must have been Tefo's excellent coaching from across the water. Use the broach! You must fight!

I am starting ep 51 now. Cengiz is in jail, still thinking his friends will find a way to clear him of the false charges. As despicable as he is, I will hate to see it when he gets the bad news. He deserves his fate, but it will be awful to watch it. Will Ezel visit him in prison and finally tell him who he is? Well, probably not before he deals with all the rest.

I wonder if Ezel will forgive Esyan, or if he will instead hook up with Bahar, the only other character in the show who has been innocent. But is Ezel still that innocent person he was before?

second comment:

This show does illustrate how much this sort of wicked behavior affects people, not only the innocent who are harmed, but the people who make the terrible decision to destroy the life of another for their own gain or enjoyment.

We spoke before about how framing a bad man for a crime he didn't commit is wrong, even though doing so removes a dangerous menace from society. In this show, Omer was forever changed by the evil deeds of his worthless friends. But I think that the act of framing his friends is changing him further, damaging his soul by practicing such duplicity. I like that the show is showing us that.

I like the time lapse photography of the boats they show from time to time in the show.

I said too much in the previous comment. Sorry about that. I will take care not to spoil it from here on

It's ok - you didn't say any major spoilers. You are shooting ahead of me !! I am up to the part where Can has been diagnosed with AHDD and is acting up or as you would say acting out !! Tefo takes him to Ramiz and sends a picture to Cengiz who is sent to a race track (which is actually a show-jumping event) in order to kill TOMWCRAS - he makes a complete botch of it and ends up shooting the horse -( in my view that alone would have been enough to put him in prison for the rest of his life.) He actually chooses his own survival above a childs. No mother would ever forgive that so he has lost both Eysan and Can. Another thing springs to mind from a previous episode - the killer with the pale eyes was in Ramiz's office when Mert went to visit him - doesn't say much for Ramiz's security - and when Mert met Ramiz on the way out he didn't say anything and nothing further came of it. Such an anti-climax to a scene. And the scene with Tefo tied to a chair asking should he get a new suit for Ali because there was blood on it - and then being shot - was that a dream sequence of Cengiz's? I need dream sequences to be obvious - shot in black and white or something - or seeing the dreamer come out of it suddenly. I see Ezel has told Sergar that he knows exactly what he is and what he might try to do. And Bahar - why is she lying to Eysan - telling her that Ezel kissed her on the lips - she kissed Ezel - not vice versa. She is also getting very cocky for a woman who is supposed to be sweet and gentle. Yes - I think Ezel is very well aware that his quest for revenge is altering his personality and he is not happy about it but can't see any other way to complete what he wants to do. Personally I wont go back on my word saying that Cengiz should not be in prison for a crime he did not commit - it sends out a bad message - police are already too quick to take the easy options as it is - not to mention framing people and withholding evidence and once you have been convicted God help you - because in a lot of cases even when presented with incontrovertible proof of innocence the authorities will ignore it if they can get away with it. But it is tempting in the case of Cengiz !!! Another thing I am not to clear on - when Mert went to the casino and more or less told Ali that he knew about what they had done (his promises aren't worth much are they?) he eventually finds a DvD with what looked like some building plans or something on it - I expected it to be the killing of the guard video but Tefo was shown changing it - what was the point of that?

"When you replace the thing you want the most, there is a kind of fear in you that shows you the truth."

What the hell does that mean? I think they just make this shit up as they go along. Just because some old guy with a gravelly voice says something, it doesn't make it a wise saying.

Tefo took Can to school and talked him into going somewhere with him on the way home, making him promise not to tell his Dad or he would get into trouble. Can agreed to keep it a secret. Tefo took him to Ramiz who taught him to fish, and took him to the horse track. Cengiz agreed to shoot a man to get Can back. As you saw, Cengiz froze and only wounded the guy, couldn't finish him off, and then shot the horse to save face. Asshole.

In order to keep suspicion off of Tefo, Ramiz had Ali beat him in the face and shoot him, so it would appear that he had been overpowered and Can had been kidnapped away from him. It wasn't a dream sequence, it was a way to keep Cengiz from suspecting Tefo was involved in bringing Can to Ramiz. But that lie would fall apart if Can ever talked about Tefo taking him to see Ramiz, the nice man who took him to see the horses. They could not expect Can to not make a mistake and let it slip that Tefo took him on a side trip, or that he never saw Tefo get shot, etc. But Cengiz never asked him about the adbuction. So they got away with that.

credit for realism: When Tefo was shot by Ali he spent time in bed rehabing from his wound. In many shows the guy gets shot, checks the wound and says "oh good, it went all the way through" and in a few minutes he is moving normally again. Here at least, Tefo spends several days in bed before even trying to sit upright.

Yeah, Bahar has been fairly forward in pursuing Ezel, especially for that culture I would think. Maybe because Ezel kissed her back she considered that a sign that he is interested, which is understandable. If I kiss a girl and she kisses back, doesn't pull away but hugs and kisses me, I am fairly certain she likes me.

I think Tefo was replacing the CD in the safe so Ali wouldn't think it had been stolen and kill Mert. I also thought it was the kill video, but apparently it was the plans for the casino they got before they robbed it.

second comment:

"A person extends his hand to another just before doomsday arrives."

We should make a list of all the crazy sayings they pass off as proverbs and esoteric maxims and wise sayings in this show.

In the beginning I wasn't really paying attention to them. But now I am just for laughs

That was ridiculous - the Tefo getting beat up to clear him of the suspicion of being involved in Can's virtual abduction - no wonder I couldn't figure it out - it makes no sense. Can - I haven't seen him re-unite with his parents yet - but the first thing any sane mother would ask is "What happened - did anyone hurt you?" To which Can would automatically reply - No - Tefo took me fishing with a nice old man who took me to the race-track and I fell asleep. I know it is to keep the story going - but realism and this show parted ways a long time ago. If you commit a crime as serious as they did - you don't keep the evidence of it - casino plans - kill videos - etc - you make sure that all files - particularly in Ezel's case - the before and after photos are destroyed personally - you don't just rely on somebody's word for it. Mert is an idiot - how does he think Ezel knows about the only place that was a special place to him and Omer? He looks deep into his eyes (virtually the only facial feature you can't really alter that much by plastic surgery) and he sees nothing - the guy's a moron. How many more times is Ezel going to say - in one hour - I will be Omer again - I can go back to my family. I am in the middle of a bit of a hiatus at the moment. Cengiz has been taken away in a car from the race meeting after tossing the gun into the middle of the road - the police are at the track - so I don't know if they will find said gun with his fingerprints on it - and of course the testimony of TOMWCRAS. I think these sayings may be being translated from the Turkish and may be losing something in the translation - they may be from a Confucius (confuse us !) like religious text or something meant to sound profound to it's readers. "A person extends his hand to another just before doomsday arrives." I am having an interpretation game then - "When disaster threatens erstwhile enemies will join together to overcome it" (Which is what Ezel has done with Ali and Eysan) HOWZAT as they say in cricket matches !! "When you replace the thing you want the most, there is a kind of fear in you that shows you the truth." Now then - the word replace - that suggests you have altered course in what you originally wanted - so now I interpret that as "When you change horses in midstream there is always the fear you might fall in the water" Ezel wants revenge the most - will he swerve from that course for Eysan - is he afraid she will betray him as she did before - will he finally accept the truth about her? Oh my goodness - what is happening to me - my head hurts !!!

Who does the blue eyed, ball cap, tennis shoe wearing, hitman work for? Does he work for Ramiz's enemy? He shows up again in later episodes and gets very active. He is a spooky looking fellow.

I am beginning episode 65 now. So much has happened that I don't want to talk about stuff yet. In general, the internal battle between Omer and Ezel continues. Ezel wants to hear from each of them why they did what they did.

Let me know where you are in the show.

I am on Ep 50. Cengiz has decided to go on holiday with his family at Ezel's suggestion - Azad has asked him to go to her flat to get something - whilst there he is attacked but manages to escape and drives off with Azad. That whole scenario is silly because Cengiz had no spark with her from the beginning as she claimed and therefore no reason to help her - he is an utter and complete coward and he would never have put himself at that risk. Also - why would he phone Ezel who is miles away - why not phone the police? Ramiz now has the bloody knife used in the attack which was obviously a set up as Azad is now her father's "man". Ezel has had a romantic episode with Bahaar in which he makes her promise to undertake the treatment even if he shouldn't be around. Yet again it is all going to end "tonight" - geez - stop it already !! We have been treated to yet another flashback where Cengiz and Omer become blood brothers. I find all this very confusing - one minute Cengiz is in prison and the inmates are giving him a hard time - then Ezel is in the same room saying welcome to your new life. Then off it goes again someplace else. They show Tefo being beaten up and shot again - did they forget we have already seen that bit? Ramiz and Ali are outside some blokes house Ramiz wants Ali to kill because "he doesn't mind murdering people and blaming it on his best friend". I am halfway through this episode. The blue - eyed hitman? Who does he work for? It has to be somebody we have seen already - somebody unexpected - he went after Azad and killed one of Ramiz's men but was he actually after Ramiz - we assume that because he was in his office - but we are not shown anybody chasing him when Ramiz turns up whilst he is still there. We have only been shown one of Ramiz's enemies and that was fat popcorn guy who has been dealt with. There is the lawyer of course - the one with the lei around his neck and the two girls on the couch - but I don't think he is powerful enough for that - so maybe the hitman is employed by Ramiz and the danger to Azad was just a ruse to make her run to Ramiz for protection. But why do I think it is Ezel? Probably because this show has no logical foundations and the reasons given will be specious and full of words of wisdom rubbish.

I share your frustration but I think I can offer some rationale for one or two of those points.

Cengiz failed to kill the horse owner and barely made it away, was ready to surrender in fact, when Azad, whom Cengiz still thinks is a writer who hates Ramiz, stops her car on the street in front of Cengiz and tells him to get in. She had written the book on Ramiz and passed herself off as his enemy. In fact she does kind of hate him for being an absent father, so that isn't all an act. Anyway, Cengiz escapes because of Azad and avoids being arrested and all, so later when she asks him for a favor he is inclined to say yes. She says she is being watched, or her apartment is being watched, I have forgotten that bit, and wants him to go to her apartment to collect some things of hers. You know the rest, the knife with his blood on it, clearly part of a planned set up. ..I don't recall that call right now but I imagine that Cengiz wants to avoid any connection with the police if he can; he was recently seen from a distance running from the attempted murder of the horse owner and he wants to avoid questions and contact with the police. That would be my guess anyway.

I now know the blue eyed hitman does work for an enemy of Ramiz, one as of yet in the story to be revealed. There was a scene or two when Ramiz is shown looking at a tall shiny twin tower building. He rambled on a bit in his self talk or wise observation talk and I got the idea it is owned by an enemy of his, not the fatso but a different enemy. And blue eyed hitman (who has no soul left that I can see) works for that man.

Things are about to change with Ezel and Bahar; you will see it happen soon so I will be quiet about it.

And you're right about the repeating pattern of Ramiz telling Ezel "you must move tonight, Son" or something like that. After a while you start to get "revenge plan fatigue". It's like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football. Ezel is ready to act, and then Omer puts on the brakes because this or that innocent person is in a crisis and he must deal with that first.

OK, they have started showing "flash forward" scenes in addition to the flash backs. I mean, dammit. It's not confusing enough already? There is definitely an element of confusion from what gets lost or corrupted in translation. (I feel sure that is why they called the horse show a horse track.) ...What you saw with Cengiz in prison and Ezel there also, standing up and saving his butt, was a flash forward. Cengiz does go to jail soon. Ezel wants to watch him suffer and also keep him from putting the pieces together so he gets himself thrown in jail along with him for a few weeks.

By now you know that Ramiz sent Ali to into that house to kill the horse owner and leave the knife with Cengiz blood on it in his hand, setting him up for a murder; just like Omer. Ali barely escaped and only made it with help from Tefo. Here is something that doesn't make sense. Ramiz and Ezel did not have anything in place to make sure Ali could escape if he got in trouble. It was only because Tefo heard what Ali had been sent to do and decided to rush to offer his assistance that Ali made it away. But what if he had been caught or killed there? That would have messed up the plan to frame Cengiz. Sure, there was the bloody knife, but if Ali was caught there instead of Cengiz, it could certainly have helped Cengiz stay out of jail.

Esyan took pity on her father once again and allowed him to stay in her house because he was homeless at that point. That scheming bastard, always looking to profit by either selling information or threatening his way into whatever plan is in the works, sees Ali, Esyan, and Ezel talking together, and sees Ezel sort of caressing Esyan's cheek and looking into her eyes with affection. And of course Serdar, the rat bastard, tries to use what he saw to profit from it. I am really looking forward to Serdar getting his due. The others betrayed Omer, but Serdar lies to and betrays his own family every chance he gets.